1 00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:05,700 Ping Yu: (music) Hello, everyone. 2 00:00:05,780 --> 00:00:13,660 Ping Yu: Welcome to the Blooms and Beyond podcast, a podcast that uncovers plant history, culture, and management through the lens of science. 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:15,060 Ping Yu: I'm your host, Ping. 4 00:00:15,140 --> 00:00:16,260 Ping Yu: How's everyone doing today? 5 00:00:16,660 --> 00:00:27,040 Ping Yu: I am doing great because here I have one of my colleagues and my dear friend, Lisa Alexander, on the show today to share her horticulture journey 6 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,580 Ping Yu: with us, and more importantly, the osmanthus. 7 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,880 Ping Yu: Lisa has been working on ornamental breeding for years. 8 00:00:35,060 --> 00:00:44,380 Ping Yu: We share one common interest, Osmanthus fragrans, which is another of my favorite plants that reminds me of home. 9 00:00:44,940 --> 00:00:48,180 Ping Yu: So I don't wanna steal any more thunder from our speaker today. 10 00:00:48,420 --> 00:00:49,980 Ping Yu: Let's just jump right into it. 11 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:54,460 Ping Yu: Without further ado, here is my conversation with Lisa. 12 00:00:54,860 --> 00:00:55,780 Ping Yu: I hope you enjoy. 13 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,300 Ping Yu: (music) So hi, Lisa. 14 00:01:00,380 --> 00:01:01,640 Ping Yu: Welcome to the podcast. 15 00:01:01,750 --> 00:01:04,420 Ping Yu: But first, let's start off with the introduction. 16 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,460 Ping Yu: Can you tell our audience a little bit about who you are and what you do? 17 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:09,500 Lisa Alexander: Sure. 18 00:01:09,620 --> 00:01:11,140 Lisa Alexander: Thank you for having me, Ping. 19 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:13,060 Lisa Alexander: I'm Lisa Alexander. 20 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:19,680 Lisa Alexander: I'm a research geneticist at the US National Arboretum, which is part of the Agricultural Research Service. 21 00:01:20,380 --> 00:01:26,420 Lisa Alexander: And the National Arboretum is where science meets beauty, and it is a wonderful place to be. 22 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:31,560 Lisa Alexander: I run a breeding and genetics program that's focused on ornamental landscape plants. 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:39,680 Lisa Alexander: I have a breeding program for hydrangeas, for tea olives, for other woody ornamentals, very much traditional breeding. 24 00:01:39,740 --> 00:01:46,700 Lisa Alexander: And I also do genetics and genomics work just to support long-term breeding strategies in ornamentals. 25 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,260 Lisa Alexander: I grew up liking plants. 26 00:01:50,520 --> 00:02:00,540 Lisa Alexander: My background is mainly in forestry, but when the ability came open to breed plants at the National Arboretum, since I had 27 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:08,699 Lisa Alexander: a background in woody plants and trees, it seemed like a really good fit, and it supports the nursery industry in my home state of Tennessee. 28 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,740 Lisa Alexander: So that's kind of how I came to be here and to get involved in tea olives. 29 00:02:14,460 --> 00:02:15,440 Ping Yu: That's great. 30 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:25,320 Ping Yu: And you kind of briefly touched base on the story of what brought you in horticulture in general, but can you share us a little bit about from that 31 00:02:25,580 --> 00:02:28,540 Ping Yu: route what first sparked your interest in plants? 32 00:02:28,660 --> 00:02:39,060 Ping Yu: I know you grew up with plants, and can you share a little bit more of your journey that leads to your current role as a researcher in horticulture? 33 00:02:39,220 --> 00:02:39,230 Lisa Alexander: Sure. 34 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:40,100 Lisa Alexander: Absolutely. 35 00:02:40,700 --> 00:02:50,180 Lisa Alexander: Well, growing up in the Ridge and Valley of East Tennessee, it really sparked my love for forests and nature, and through that, the plants that lived there. 36 00:02:50,540 --> 00:02:56,359 Lisa Alexander: So that was, you know, my first love for plants, were the ones growing in the hills and valleys where I lived. 37 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:06,440 Lisa Alexander: It was later on in college when I started working with American chestnut trees that I started thinking more broadly about growing trees, about breeding trees, and that 38 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:12,180 Lisa Alexander: trees could be a crop, and that really sparked my first interest in horticulture. 39 00:03:12,540 --> 00:03:16,180 Ping Yu: So you said your first degree is in forestry, right? 40 00:03:16,220 --> 00:03:17,260 Ping Yu: Or your second degree? 41 00:03:18,100 --> 00:03:18,380 Lisa Alexander: Yes. 42 00:03:18,620 --> 00:03:20,700 Lisa Alexander: Yep, I have an undergrad in biology. 43 00:03:21,500 --> 00:03:31,260 Lisa Alexander: It was a very basic biology program, but I did have an opportunity to do a research program with a chestnut breeder, and that really sparked my interest. 44 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,140 Lisa Alexander: The American chestnut tree is my favorite plant. 45 00:03:36,020 --> 00:03:46,049 Lisa Alexander: It is such an iconic species for the eastern US, and it was my introduction to all the puzzles of inheritance, and the 46 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,630 Lisa Alexander: ideas of plant breeding for resistance. 47 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:53,650 Lisa Alexander: It really sparked my imagination about, you know, what is genetics? 48 00:03:53,740 --> 00:03:54,400 Lisa Alexander: What is DNA? 49 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,100 Lisa Alexander: How does it relate to all of this? 50 00:03:56,180 --> 00:04:06,320 Lisa Alexander: And at the time, sequencing and molecular markers were just in their infancy, so it was such an exciting time to be thinking about 51 00:04:06,340 --> 00:04:07,100 Lisa Alexander: plant breeding. 52 00:04:07,580 --> 00:04:09,140 Lisa Alexander: And then chestnuts are so tasty. 53 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,400 Lisa Alexander: So it was the perfect... 54 00:04:11,460 --> 00:04:21,700 Lisa Alexander: You know, it was this perfect crossover for me between forestry and, you know, this iconic forest tree, and also chestnut production and tree crop 55 00:04:21,860 --> 00:04:27,380 Lisa Alexander: production, and also just chestnut culture, eating, growing, and enjoying chestnuts. 56 00:04:28,140 --> 00:04:28,460 Ping Yu: Yeah. 57 00:04:28,580 --> 00:04:32,360 Ping Yu: So you kind of shared, I guess, chestnut tree is your favorite plant. 58 00:04:32,900 --> 00:04:38,460 Ping Yu: Is that because it all kind of opened your door to the whole new world for you? 59 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:45,240 Ping Yu: Or are there any special characteristics of this plant besides that? 60 00:04:45,900 --> 00:04:48,039 Lisa Alexander: Well, how many hours do we have? 61 00:04:48,340 --> 00:04:51,500 Ping Yu: (laughs) We have one hour, (laughs) we have one hour in total. 62 00:04:51,580 --> 00:04:52,700 Lisa Alexander: Short answer is yes. 63 00:04:53,000 --> 00:05:02,770 Lisa Alexander: There are so many special characteristics of the American chestnut tree, the most important of which is it was the underpinning of an entire economy and an entire way of 64 00:05:02,860 --> 00:05:03,320 Lisa Alexander: life. 65 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:12,880 Lisa Alexander: In the mountains, the lumber was strong and rot-resistant, so you could build houses and fences and barns out of it. 66 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:23,500 Lisa Alexander: The mast, or the fruiting crop of the chestnut tree, was enough to support pigs, which were the main animal that was grown, or raised (Ping Yu: Mm-hmm) in that 67 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:24,370 Lisa Alexander: region. 68 00:05:24,420 --> 00:05:28,220 Lisa Alexander: And then the chestnuts themselves were eaten or used to make flour. 69 00:05:28,730 --> 00:05:38,660 Lisa Alexander: So you could essentially live rurally in the mountains just off the provisions of the American chestnut tree. 70 00:05:39,129 --> 00:05:48,740 Lisa Alexander: And so when chestnut blight came to the eastern US in the early 1900s, it didn't just wipe out a tree, it wiped out an entire way of life. 71 00:05:49,330 --> 00:05:54,900 Lisa Alexander: And to imagine that one species could support all that is just amazing. 72 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,840 Lisa Alexander: And also the size of them, I can't help but love big trees. 73 00:05:58,880 --> 00:05:59,269 Lisa Alexander: Who doesn't? 74 00:05:59,320 --> 00:05:59,600 Ping Yu: Yeah. 75 00:05:59,900 --> 00:06:10,380 Lisa Alexander: And (Ping Yu: Yeah, you're right) so, the fact that the eastern forest does not have trees like that today is, really intrigues my imagination about 76 00:06:10,580 --> 00:06:11,140 Lisa Alexander: that tree. 77 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,260 Ping Yu: Yeah, I totally agree with you. 78 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:14,820 Ping Yu: Who doesn't like a big tree? 79 00:06:15,140 --> 00:06:17,480 Ping Yu: I mean (laughs) they are just gorgeous. 80 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:18,000 Lisa Alexander: Yes. 81 00:06:19,530 --> 00:06:25,660 Ping Yu: (music) So what brought you to tea, a sweet tea olive? 82 00:06:26,340 --> 00:06:36,520 Lisa Alexander: Well, what brought me to tea olive was when you are establishing a breeding program, when one is (Ping Yu: Mm-hmm) thinking of all the wonderful species 83 00:06:36,580 --> 00:06:42,700 Lisa Alexander: out there one could work with, there needs to be a diversity of plants in the program. 84 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,620 Lisa Alexander: A lot of the plants I work with are in very short cycles. 85 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:52,960 Lisa Alexander: They're intensive, or they require a lot of genetic work, or they all bloom in April and May. 86 00:06:52,980 --> 00:07:00,110 Lisa Alexander: (laughs) So I specifically wanted a plant that I could have a more traditional breeding approach with. 87 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:11,040 Lisa Alexander: Also, that did not bloom, was not a summer bloomer, which is the time that most of my other crops bloom, and that did not have as 88 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:18,420 Lisa Alexander: big of a footprint in the US already, so that, I don't know, I had an opportunity to enter on the ground floor. 89 00:07:18,860 --> 00:07:27,980 Lisa Alexander: Also, a former ARS researcher, Donna Fare, was a big fan of osmanthus, and she had me smell a branch, and that... 90 00:07:28,020 --> 00:07:29,780 Lisa Alexander: I mean, I think that really wins you over. 91 00:07:29,820 --> 00:07:33,540 Lisa Alexander: There's no smell (Ping Yu: Oh, yeah) that is like a mix... 92 00:07:33,660 --> 00:07:34,250 Lisa Alexander: What do they say? 93 00:07:34,580 --> 00:07:36,630 Lisa Alexander: Apricot, honey, and sunshine. 94 00:07:37,140 --> 00:07:38,880 Lisa Alexander: It's like nothing else. 95 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,320 Lisa Alexander: And so I like trees, and so I was immediately taken with it. 96 00:07:43,540 --> 00:07:44,840 Ping Yu: Yeah, I totally get it. 97 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:55,010 Ping Yu: Like, if you haven't smelled a tea olive, or Osmanthus fragrans, get one smell, and then you're gonna not get rid of it for your rest of life, 'cause that (Lisa Alexander: That's right) 98 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,160 Ping Yu: that smell just reminds me of home. 99 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:08,700 Ping Yu: Because like you said, the US doesn't have a huge germplasm compared to China because I think China has been cultivating 100 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,280 Ping Yu: this species for over 2,000 years. 101 00:08:11,620 --> 00:08:17,120 Ping Yu: So they have a (Lisa Alexander: Yes) long history about this tree, and that's the root for my home country. 102 00:08:17,260 --> 00:08:21,300 Ping Yu: So that's another reason why I love this plant in general. 103 00:08:21,420 --> 00:08:22,860 Ping Yu: But what... 104 00:08:22,900 --> 00:08:30,160 Ping Yu: Can you share a little bit about, like, history and culture here in the US with Osmanthus fragrans? 105 00:08:30,210 --> 00:08:30,859 Ping Yu: 'Cause they... 106 00:08:31,420 --> 00:08:40,780 Ping Yu: Well, I know that they are originally from China, but can you elaborate us or educate us the history of osmanthus growing in the US? 107 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:41,440 Lisa Alexander: Sure. 108 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,640 Lisa Alexander: Well, like you said, in Asia or... 109 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,260 Lisa Alexander: Osmanthus are native to all over Asia. 110 00:08:47,380 --> 00:08:54,180 Lisa Alexander: Osmanthus fragrans is native to China, and as you said, have been cultivated for over 2,000 years. 111 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,540 Lisa Alexander: They're parts of poetry, art, folklore. 112 00:08:59,020 --> 00:09:05,460 Lisa Alexander: Because they flower in fall, they're part of your autumn festivals, osmanthus cakes, osmanthus wine. 113 00:09:05,620 --> 00:09:11,440 Lisa Alexander: I just, I love all the things that, especially China does with osmanthus. 114 00:09:12,060 --> 00:09:21,040 Lisa Alexander: And although Americans don't have those same centuries-old traditions, we have been growing osmanthus for a long time. 115 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:30,219 Lisa Alexander: They came into this country in the 1700s and 1800s, during, you know, the great age of plant explorers and plant exchange. 116 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:38,000 Lisa Alexander: Both Osmanthus fragrans, Osmanthus heterophyllus, Osmanthus armatus were brought in from Asia. 117 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:49,560 Lisa Alexander: Robert Fortune, a famous plantsman, brought in a naturally occurring hybrid between Osmanthus fragrans and Osmanthus heterophyllus, and we call it Osmanthus × fortunei 118 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:50,620 Lisa Alexander: after Robert Fortune. 119 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:51,330 Ping Yu: Mm-hmm. 120 00:09:51,390 --> 00:09:53,120 Lisa Alexander: So we've grown them for a while. 121 00:09:53,760 --> 00:10:02,440 Lisa Alexander: Especially in the southern US, there's more of a culture for growing it, using it in landscapes. 122 00:10:02,940 --> 00:10:10,160 Lisa Alexander: Nurseries will highlight it as four-season charm, a plant that brings both beauty and fragrance. 123 00:10:10,180 --> 00:10:12,200 Lisa Alexander: It has landscape appeal. 124 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:16,360 Lisa Alexander: It can be valuable as a broadleaf evergreen shrub, a small tree. 125 00:10:16,380 --> 00:10:20,760 Lisa Alexander: It's often used in verges, like roadside verges. 126 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:27,220 Lisa Alexander: You can drive around New Orleans, for example, and you can see osmanthus growing in verges. 127 00:10:27,940 --> 00:10:29,320 Lisa Alexander: It's very versatile. 128 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,000 Lisa Alexander: It can be a tree or a small shrub. 129 00:10:31,060 --> 00:10:37,060 Lisa Alexander: It's drought-tolerant, low-maintenance, and some of the traditions and cultural uses are growing here. 130 00:10:37,140 --> 00:10:40,380 Lisa Alexander: It's being used in teas, perfumes, gardens. 131 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:45,940 Lisa Alexander: And so it's really being promoted, I think, by nurseries, especially as a landscape plant. 132 00:10:46,020 --> 00:10:52,040 Lisa Alexander: But as that is growing more, all the other advantages and cultural uses are growing as well. 133 00:10:52,740 --> 00:10:53,000 Ping Yu: Yeah. 134 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:53,980 Ping Yu: Yeah, I agree. 135 00:10:54,040 --> 00:11:04,520 Ping Yu: And then just to clarify that osmanthus, in general, they have different types based on their bloom time and their habitat. 136 00:11:04,590 --> 00:11:14,080 Ping Yu: And normally when you brought up the full season long bloom and beauty, there was a specific category or a group of the osmanthus, it's called... 137 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:24,820 Ping Yu: Well, in China, we call it Sijigui, means seasonal long osmanthus that will bloom over the year, if the environmental factor 138 00:11:25,300 --> 00:11:26,860 Ping Yu: favors their bloom. 139 00:11:26,940 --> 00:11:34,420 Ping Yu: And there are, for the rest of three other groups, they only bloom in the fall. 140 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,620 Ping Yu: And for the color, I think one of the... 141 00:11:38,300 --> 00:11:48,820 Ping Yu: Anyone who is out there who has seen Osmanthus fragrans, they would be so charmed by the orange or the red osmanthus, that's, 142 00:11:48,830 --> 00:11:56,700 Ping Yu: that's called the Jingui group, which means golden osmanthus (laughs) or gold color osmanthus. 143 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,240 Ping Yu: But we just have so many different species. 144 00:12:00,780 --> 00:12:02,960 Ping Yu: And about how do you... 145 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:13,720 Ping Yu: Well, I guess, how do the different cultivars of Osmanthus fragrans varies in their fragrance, 146 00:12:13,820 --> 00:12:15,480 Ping Yu: bloom season, and growth habits? 147 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:17,520 Ping Yu: Can you give us a full picture? 148 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:25,520 Lisa Alexander: Yeah, no, one of the most exciting aspects of Osmanthus fragrans is that there is so much diversity in those traits that you mentioned. 149 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:32,900 Lisa Alexander: Those four categories, I find them a little confusing, even as an osmanthus breeder. 150 00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:43,720 Lisa Alexander: But I think what you mentioned are really the salient points, in that some of them have very creamy white flowers that are appressed to the stem, 151 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:52,280 Lisa Alexander: whereas some of the flowers are much longer, the stems and peduncles are just much longer on the flowers, so they seem more pendulant. 152 00:12:52,840 --> 00:13:00,140 Lisa Alexander: There are differences in the color from sort of creamy white through light yellow to bright orange. 153 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,400 Lisa Alexander: And then the most important is the bloom time. 154 00:13:03,940 --> 00:13:10,020 Lisa Alexander: So, the very bright one that blooms in fall only, we would call aurantiaca. 155 00:13:10,329 --> 00:13:19,340 Lisa Alexander: And the one that blooms fall through the winter and into spring, we might call sempervirens or, you know, all season. 156 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:27,320 Lisa Alexander: And there are a few that are in a more disjunct sort of subspecies that are only spring blooming. 157 00:13:28,020 --> 00:13:30,200 Lisa Alexander: So really there's a huge variation. 158 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,359 Lisa Alexander: And then you have the form. 159 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,040 Lisa Alexander: So Osmanthus fragrans are understory trees. 160 00:13:38,140 --> 00:13:41,460 Lisa Alexander: They're native, you know, to temperate forests in China. 161 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:47,820 Lisa Alexander: And so they have the typical growth pattern of an understory tree where they're gonna... 162 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:57,250 Lisa Alexander: They can exist as a multi-stem shrub very happily, but in the presence of light, there is apical dominance that will take over, and they will shoot up, you 163 00:13:57,300 --> 00:13:59,700 Lisa Alexander: know, to try to get the understory light. 164 00:13:59,780 --> 00:14:10,060 Lisa Alexander: So, you know, some are more shrubby than others, but all of them have that multi-stem shrub, tree form growth habit, and all are very versatile 165 00:14:10,220 --> 00:14:13,480 Lisa Alexander: in that they can be trained up to tree form. 166 00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:14,659 Lisa Alexander: They can be a shrub. 167 00:14:15,399 --> 00:14:18,940 Lisa Alexander: It just sort of depends on how, you know, you want them to be shaped. 168 00:14:19,370 --> 00:14:19,880 Ping Yu: Mm-hmm. 169 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:30,240 Ping Yu: (music) What is your research or breeding program focused on for the tea olive? 170 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:35,540 Ping Yu: What traits that you're looking for specifically in the breeding line? 171 00:14:36,260 --> 00:14:36,600 Lisa Alexander: Yeah. 172 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:43,120 Lisa Alexander: So we're focused on crossing Osmanthus fragrans with more cold-hardy species. 173 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:53,480 Lisa Alexander: So mainly Osmanthus armatus, heterophyllus, some of the fortunei cultivars, and trying to recover 174 00:14:53,520 --> 00:15:03,560 Lisa Alexander: three main things: the upright tree form, the flowering fragrance, and the smooth leaf form of the Osmanthus 175 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:04,120 Lisa Alexander: fragrans. 176 00:15:04,260 --> 00:15:14,340 Lisa Alexander: Many osmanthus cultivars have a holly leaf shape, and that's a little less friendly in a garden than the smooth leaf. 177 00:15:14,460 --> 00:15:17,220 Lisa Alexander: So that is what we are trying to do. 178 00:15:17,300 --> 00:15:27,540 Lisa Alexander: And because we know Fortune's osmanthus, the natural hybrid between fragrans and heterophyllus, is intermediate in many of its traits between the parents, 179 00:15:27,620 --> 00:15:34,660 Lisa Alexander: you know, we feel strongly that hybrid breeding is a good avenue forward to introgress traits between the species. 180 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:35,700 Ping Yu: Yeah. 181 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:45,980 Ping Yu: And another aspect or another trait that people are looking for is a more compacted form, not just for osmanthus, but for a lot of plants in 182 00:15:46,020 --> 00:15:46,460 Ping Yu: general. 183 00:15:46,540 --> 00:15:48,820 Ping Yu: Are you also looking at that aspect? 184 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:50,060 Lisa Alexander: Absolutely. 185 00:15:50,260 --> 00:15:57,300 Lisa Alexander: (laughs) We have a great team of cooperators that are helping us evaluate those plants. 186 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:07,400 Lisa Alexander: As you know, when you breed very heterozygous crops like osmanthus, these crops are outcrossing, they're not inbreeding, so there's a lot of diversity 187 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:08,800 Lisa Alexander: in all of these plants. 188 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:17,140 Lisa Alexander: So their offspring can be... You cross two medium-sized parents, and you get everything from a tiny dwarf to a giant tree. 189 00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:26,720 Lisa Alexander: So it's really interesting to see what some of these hybrids look like, and to take some of the compact ones and to see, you know, do they retain that 190 00:16:26,780 --> 00:16:27,800 Lisa Alexander: compact shape? 191 00:16:28,620 --> 00:16:32,240 Lisa Alexander: People want potted plants and plants for smaller gardens. 192 00:16:32,340 --> 00:16:40,780 Lisa Alexander: So it could be that some of our plants, we want them to be cold-hardy, but even the ones that retain, you know, their usual hardiness could have a 193 00:16:40,820 --> 00:16:45,320 Lisa Alexander: role as a compact plant in more traditional osmanthus environments. 194 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:56,040 Ping Yu: Yeah, I think one of the intriguing parts of breeding is that you never know, like, if you're doing the crossing, you know the parents, but you never know 195 00:16:56,100 --> 00:16:58,300 Ping Yu: what their offspring would look like. 196 00:16:58,340 --> 00:17:07,500 Ping Yu: It's kinda like you're making kid, and you know what you look like and what your husband look like, but you cannot precisely predict what your kid would look 197 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:07,820 Ping Yu: like. 198 00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:09,560 Ping Yu: So that's kinda fun part of that. 199 00:17:09,580 --> 00:17:11,000 Lisa Alexander: (laughs) Absolutely. 200 00:17:11,460 --> 00:17:20,020 Ping Yu: What is the, well, most challenging part when you were working on tea olive over the years? 201 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:28,180 Lisa Alexander: So osmanthus is a tree, so it has all the challenges of breeding a tree, and it has some unique challenges. 202 00:17:28,260 --> 00:17:32,140 Lisa Alexander: So like any tree, you just wish it would grow and flower faster. 203 00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:40,060 Lisa Alexander: You make a cross, and especially if you're interested in floral traits, it might take you several years to evaluate that cross. 204 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:45,240 Lisa Alexander: And so just the pace of it, you always wish was faster. 205 00:17:45,980 --> 00:17:49,460 Lisa Alexander: Another one is just the amount of germplasm. 206 00:17:49,540 --> 00:17:56,620 Lisa Alexander: So one of the first things we want to do as breeders is to collect as much germplasm as we can and evaluate it. 207 00:17:57,060 --> 00:18:07,200 Lisa Alexander: And because most of the Osmanthus fragrans is in another country, it's just a little bit of a slower process to get those plants 208 00:18:07,260 --> 00:18:08,640 Lisa Alexander: in people's hands to look at them. 209 00:18:09,100 --> 00:18:15,980 Lisa Alexander: Now, that said, I have to make a big shout-out here to Ted Stephens from Nurseries Caroliniana. 210 00:18:16,260 --> 00:18:16,640 Lisa Alexander: Yes. 211 00:18:16,660 --> 00:18:26,800 Lisa Alexander: Also to Dave Creech, Richard Olsen, Donglin Zhang, and all of the folks that have really made efforts over the 212 00:18:26,860 --> 00:18:35,080 Lisa Alexander: years to go to China, to go to Japan, to go to these places, make relationships, and bring plants back into this country. 213 00:18:35,090 --> 00:18:37,580 Lisa Alexander: They're the only reason we have them here. 214 00:18:37,620 --> 00:18:42,240 Lisa Alexander: And so they really laid the foundations, and so I feel like thanking them now. 215 00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:46,380 Lisa Alexander: You know, your efforts are coming into fruition, and we appreciate them. 216 00:18:46,540 --> 00:18:55,730 Lisa Alexander: And so now we just want more, because when you look at the literature published in China, you can see there are hundreds and hundreds of cultivars, not 217 00:18:55,820 --> 00:18:58,120 Lisa Alexander: to mention the natural populations. 218 00:18:58,180 --> 00:19:05,820 Lisa Alexander: So just forming the relationships and pipelines to get the germplasm exchanged between countries is challenging. 219 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:16,160 Lisa Alexander: And then another challenge, as I mentioned earlier, Osmanthus fragrans often keeps male flowers and female flowers on different plants. 220 00:19:16,740 --> 00:19:21,320 Lisa Alexander: And so you might bring in 10 plants and realize they're all males. 221 00:19:21,860 --> 00:19:24,800 Lisa Alexander: (laughs) And so that's very tough on a breeding program. 222 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:32,780 Lisa Alexander: And so to just get more germplasm that has been characterized for breeding, that's the challenge. 223 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:41,420 Lisa Alexander: Other challenges include the fact that osmanthus is a one cross, one seed plant. 224 00:19:41,460 --> 00:19:48,200 Lisa Alexander: So if you breed hydrangea, you put pollen on a flower and you can get a hundred seeds out of that fruit. 225 00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:55,520 Lisa Alexander: Osmanthus has a four-chambered ovary, but only one ovule will be fertilized at any time. 226 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:57,200 Lisa Alexander: It's the same system as an olive. 227 00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,920 Lisa Alexander: So yeah, one cross, one seed. 228 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:06,600 Lisa Alexander: And so we have some strategies and tools to overcome that, but I would say that those are the main challenges. 229 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:17,200 Lisa Alexander: But they're also the main opportunities, because of that, not many people have gone down these avenues, and so they're still open, you know, for us 230 00:20:17,260 --> 00:20:19,060 Lisa Alexander: to explore and us to pursue. 231 00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:22,100 Ping Yu: Yeah, I like your perception on that. 232 00:20:22,180 --> 00:20:31,360 Ping Yu: It's challenging, but also opportunities for us to dive into it and get more discovery from that avenue. 233 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:31,480 Ping Yu: Um... 234 00:20:31,860 --> 00:20:38,380 Ping Yu: (music) I personally have worked on osmanthus, and you... 235 00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:41,020 Ping Yu: We shared some information already. 236 00:20:41,780 --> 00:20:49,860 Ping Yu: One of the things that frustrates me the most, or frustrates you even more as a breeder, is the... 237 00:20:50,330 --> 00:20:55,040 Ping Yu: It's so hard to let them, like, germinate from the seeds. 238 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,780 Ping Yu: Even though you can get some seeds, like, from online... 239 00:21:00,269 --> 00:21:04,320 Ping Yu: But it's so hard to get those seeds germinate. 240 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:16,420 Ping Yu: And just imagine if you can find a way to have those seeds germinate, those are open-pollinated seeds, how many different, like, traits 241 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:23,860 Ping Yu: or characteristics that the new seedlings will come and give it to you and for you to evaluate. 242 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:24,740 Ping Yu: That would be... 243 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:34,660 Ping Yu: If we could somewhat overcome that, that would open another big door for us or for any breeder that works on osmanthus, right? 244 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:35,900 Lisa Alexander: Oh, absolutely. 245 00:21:35,980 --> 00:21:38,740 Lisa Alexander: I mean, that is one of the main things we're focused on. 246 00:21:39,220 --> 00:21:43,140 Lisa Alexander: Propagation, I think, is one of the toughest issues for osmanthus. 247 00:21:43,170 --> 00:21:53,260 Lisa Alexander: And frankly, one of the reasons why it hasn't penetrated into the American markets further is because you have to propagate the plants for it to, 248 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:54,500 Lisa Alexander: you know, for that to work. 249 00:21:54,540 --> 00:22:04,700 Lisa Alexander: And, you know, some very, very specialty operations might graft a few cultivars, but that, you have to have seedling rootstocks 250 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:05,240 Lisa Alexander: to graft. 251 00:22:05,340 --> 00:22:07,539 Lisa Alexander: So propagation is so tough. 252 00:22:07,740 --> 00:22:14,220 Lisa Alexander: I know that both of our research programs are trying to tackle those challenges and provide good solutions to growers. 253 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:25,120 Lisa Alexander: Semi-hardwood cuttings are probably the most popular way to propagate osmanthus cultivars, but there are problems of both take and survival 254 00:22:25,260 --> 00:22:26,780 Lisa Alexander: of rooted cuttings. 255 00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:34,340 Lisa Alexander: Seed propagation is tough because of both the time to germination and the low germination rate, and we've tried all different methods. 256 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:44,700 Lisa Alexander: We've tried imbibing the seeds, and cold and warm treatments, and hydrochloric acid, but we have yet to hit that sweet spot of both 257 00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:51,220 Lisa Alexander: timely germination and uniform germination, because it really needs to be both. 258 00:22:51,840 --> 00:23:02,040 Lisa Alexander: And interestingly, the best seed germination I've ever seen was from growers that had fruit-producing trees outdoors 259 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:10,680 Lisa Alexander: in a campus, and they simply let the fruit fall, let it do its thing over winter, and then went back and dug up seedlings in the spring. 260 00:23:10,740 --> 00:23:13,300 Lisa Alexander: Now, obviously, that doesn't scale up. 261 00:23:13,460 --> 00:23:17,100 Lisa Alexander: That's not gonna be a solution for large-scale production. 262 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:25,220 Lisa Alexander: But what it does indicate is that these seeds really want to germinate in their natural conditions. 263 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,480 Lisa Alexander: You know, we have not domesticated them. 264 00:23:27,540 --> 00:23:37,680 Lisa Alexander: They're not wanting to germinate on our timetable, and so we're gonna have to think about their physiology and mimic that in a way to 265 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,260 Lisa Alexander: really get germination protocols for this species. 266 00:23:41,660 --> 00:23:44,239 Ping Yu: Yeah, that's interesting because I have... 267 00:23:44,450 --> 00:23:45,260 Ping Yu: Not seen... 268 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:55,810 Ping Yu: Well, there's only one paper that indicated a pretty good germination rate from the seeds, but only 269 00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:04,620 Ping Yu: one, and it's from I don't know how many years ago, and I think that would be interesting to see and how we can 270 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:05,760 Ping Yu: work on that. 271 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:13,440 Lisa Alexander: Well, we are, we're working on it because, like you said, it's very frustrating when you have the seed, you... 272 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,860 Lisa Alexander: As I mentioned, one cross, one seed, so you put in a lot of effort, and then they don't germinate. 273 00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:22,880 Lisa Alexander: And as a breeder, you think, "What was all that for?" 274 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:32,160 Lisa Alexander: And now our osmanthus are big enough, they produce enough open-pollinated fruit that we can do those seed experiments in a larger number. 275 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:38,080 Lisa Alexander: I think that's gonna be able to provide the kind of results that we need going forward. 276 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:48,920 Ping Yu: Oh, that's great because I think if we can really solve that problem and kind of find a solution for the seed germination, that'll be 277 00:24:48,980 --> 00:24:49,400 Ping Yu: great. 278 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:59,800 Ping Yu: Because right now, I think for, at least for in the US, most of grower who produce osmanthus, I think the majority of them produce the Osmanthus fragrans. 279 00:24:59,820 --> 00:25:06,800 Ping Yu: They don't have even a specific cultivar that's just most popular among the customer that they serve. 280 00:25:07,460 --> 00:25:18,260 Ping Yu: But the cutting is the main way for them to propagate those, and I would love to say that our 281 00:25:18,340 --> 00:25:28,720 Ping Yu: industry adapt more diverse color of this plant because there are so many good ones that needs to be head to the market, 282 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:34,480 Ping Yu: that needs to be planted more, so that more people can appreciate, can like them. 283 00:25:36,340 --> 00:25:46,580 Ping Yu: (music) Can you share some of the germplasm that you have collected over the years that you are working for the osmanthus breeding, or, 284 00:25:46,780 --> 00:25:53,340 Ping Yu: or can you share some of the update of your osmanthus breeding program? 285 00:25:53,580 --> 00:25:53,840 Lisa Alexander: Sure. 286 00:25:54,780 --> 00:26:03,680 Lisa Alexander: I mean, I can tell you what we have, and then physically I can share it through things like material transfer agreements and plant evaluation agreements. 287 00:26:04,660 --> 00:26:09,540 Lisa Alexander: Like I said, I've tried to get quite a large germplasm collection. 288 00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:12,420 Lisa Alexander: I think that I have a large and diverse collection. 289 00:26:12,460 --> 00:26:17,420 Lisa Alexander: It's Osmanthus armatus, heterophyllus, fragrans, and fortunei. 290 00:26:17,660 --> 00:26:21,960 Lisa Alexander: I keep about 45 to 50 cultivars. 291 00:26:22,270 --> 00:26:24,860 Lisa Alexander: I wish I had more, especially of Osmanthus fragrans. 292 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,340 Lisa Alexander: We've tested many more. 293 00:26:27,940 --> 00:26:37,870 Lisa Alexander: Anything that's available in this country, we have tested in McMinnville, Tennessee, and some of them we discarded because they weren't going to make good breeding parents or they weren't 294 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:42,060 Lisa Alexander: cold tolerant, so we don't keep, you know, we don't keep everything here. 295 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,640 Lisa Alexander: We do keep quite a large collection. 296 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,100 Lisa Alexander: We propagate it through semi-hardwood cuttings. 297 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,160 Lisa Alexander: We've gotten pretty good at that. 298 00:26:51,190 --> 00:27:01,320 Lisa Alexander: I would not say it is at acceptable industry levels of success, but we, you know, if we get 50%, we're pretty happy with when we 299 00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:03,700 Lisa Alexander: root our osmanthus. 300 00:27:04,740 --> 00:27:14,780 Lisa Alexander: We use, like any breeding program that's academic, we really struggle between, you know, I have to have scholarly output in 301 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:15,460 Lisa Alexander: osmanthus. 302 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,840 Lisa Alexander: I need to share basic knowledge. 303 00:27:17,980 --> 00:27:19,440 Lisa Alexander: I also need to create plants. 304 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:25,720 Lisa Alexander: So the way I sort of balance that in my program is I do a lot of pre-breeding activities. 305 00:27:26,180 --> 00:27:31,720 Lisa Alexander: Pre-breeding includes things like flow cytometry to make sure that they all have the same genome size. 306 00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:35,360 Lisa Alexander: It also includes a lot of crossing and pollen tube work. 307 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,180 Lisa Alexander: So I wanna know, are they self-fertile? 308 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,240 Lisa Alexander: Do I need to emasculate and bag? 309 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,280 Lisa Alexander: Are the crosses gonna be equally compatible? 310 00:27:43,380 --> 00:27:49,250 Lisa Alexander: If I put, you know, armatus pollen on a fragrans or vice versa, are they actually gonna take? 311 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,260 Lisa Alexander: So we do a lot of that pre-breeding work. 312 00:27:52,340 --> 00:27:56,739 Lisa Alexander: We decide what crosses we think are gonna take, and we make a lot of them. 313 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:07,470 Lisa Alexander: We also have switched to propagating a lot of the plants that we want as parents, collecting open-pollinated seed, and then 314 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,040 Lisa Alexander: using molecular markers to reconstruct the parentage. 315 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:22,080 Lisa Alexander: For me, that actually is easier and faster than making all those different crosses, because I can take this batch of open-pollinated seed, extract DNA, run 316 00:28:22,100 --> 00:28:27,060 Lisa Alexander: a one multiplexed marker set, and then I group them into different parents. 317 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:36,420 Lisa Alexander: You don't always have all parental combinations represented that way, but it is a good way to manage that workload. 318 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:43,500 Lisa Alexander: We try to evaluate in pots at an early age, and it's really saved the field for more advanced selections. 319 00:28:43,860 --> 00:28:50,500 Lisa Alexander: And then of course, teamwork is invaluable any time you wanna make any kind of a genetic improvement. 320 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:59,260 Lisa Alexander: So to have people that are interested in compact plants that say, "I wanna judge the compactness," or, "I wanna look at the cold more thoroughly," or, "I wanna 321 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,670 Lisa Alexander: look at the fragrance, you know, aromas." 322 00:29:02,070 --> 00:29:10,920 Lisa Alexander: So constructing a good team and then making really targeted crosses are sort of the tenets that underpin our breeding program. 323 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:22,140 Ping Yu: Yeah, 'cause I can't imagine, like, you kinda have to work very strategically to check both the box from the academic 324 00:29:22,340 --> 00:29:28,090 Ping Yu: output and your cultivar release and then all the plants that you want to create. 325 00:29:28,420 --> 00:29:29,560 Lisa Alexander: That's right, yeah. 326 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:38,220 Lisa Alexander: So I always tell students, you think in your mind of a straight line between, you know, you make a cross and you evaluate and then you release and it's 327 00:29:38,260 --> 00:29:41,780 Lisa Alexander: a straight line, but you don't get scholarly output that way. 328 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,360 Lisa Alexander: You have to zig and you have to zag around your line. 329 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:55,600 Lisa Alexander: And, you know, we've published on things like evaluating the floral traits in our osmanthus core collection, developing molecular markers that we 330 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,320 Lisa Alexander: distribute to use for the community. 331 00:29:57,380 --> 00:30:01,180 Lisa Alexander: We also use them in our own program, but now they're useful to everybody. 332 00:30:01,380 --> 00:30:10,920 Lisa Alexander: So, you know, we try to balance, try to make the scholarly output very useful and supportive to the breeding, but it also has to be adjacent to the breeding 333 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,340 Lisa Alexander: just because the breeding does take, you know, take a while. 334 00:30:14,420 --> 00:30:21,320 Ping Yu: (music) Yeah, and how long does it take for the breeding? 335 00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:23,950 Ping Yu: Just to give an example, like, there was... 336 00:30:24,010 --> 00:30:28,840 Ping Yu: Well, I think that you have many of the hybrids already. 337 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:38,940 Ping Yu: Just give us an example and showcase how long does it really take from getting the germplasm to the sibling or to the offspring 338 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,260 Ping Yu: of that parent (laughs) plant. 339 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:43,240 Lisa Alexander: It takes a long time. 340 00:30:43,780 --> 00:30:54,100 Lisa Alexander: So, and you can short... And as your breeding program progresses and you start to fix some of the traits you want in your population, you 341 00:30:54,140 --> 00:30:55,460 Lisa Alexander: can reduce some of the time. 342 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:00,320 Lisa Alexander: But in the beginning, I would say it easily takes seven to ten years. 343 00:31:01,020 --> 00:31:09,120 Lisa Alexander: So the crosses that are in my field now that are in the third year of evaluation, those crosses were made in 2018. 344 00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:16,600 Lisa Alexander: So you, you know, you make the cross and then you wait, and then the seed germination itself is six months, you know. 345 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:25,700 Lisa Alexander: And then you might evaluate it in the pot for a year and then you put 2-0 seedlings in the ground, evaluate them for at least two seasons, maybe 346 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:35,120 Lisa Alexander: three, and then in USDA, we have quite a stringent testing program over multiple landscapes, multiple hardiness zones. 347 00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:40,210 Lisa Alexander: Or if that work was supported in any way, you might... 348 00:31:40,220 --> 00:31:44,980 Lisa Alexander: There might be a nursery or some group that takes it and markets it for you. 349 00:31:45,300 --> 00:31:45,860 Lisa Alexander: But in... 350 00:31:45,900 --> 00:31:54,460 Lisa Alexander: Generally, if the Arboretum releases a cultivar, we're kind of on our own to do all that testing, and so that part takes a while. 351 00:31:55,140 --> 00:32:05,160 Lisa Alexander: Once you have a trait fixed in your population, for example, once I know that all of the offspring are going to have smooth leaves, for example, there might 352 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:10,540 Lisa Alexander: be a step that can be taken out and be short as you start to fix the traits that you want. 353 00:32:11,260 --> 00:32:19,580 Lisa Alexander: But trees, traditional breeding, you're looking at seven to ten years from a cross to something that is market ready. 354 00:32:19,940 --> 00:32:20,660 Ping Yu: Yeah, I know. 355 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:21,340 Ping Yu: That's why I... 356 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:30,500 Ping Yu: while you were talking about like a woody tree or trees and woody plants, I was laughing 'cause I know how long it takes for people to get one 357 00:32:30,620 --> 00:32:34,720 Ping Yu: cultivar created from the beginning. 358 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:41,040 Ping Yu: It is years of hard work before you can actually see the offspring. 359 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,100 Ping Yu: What are the tools or methods you use for your breeding program? 360 00:32:45,140 --> 00:32:45,780 Ping Yu: Are you... 361 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:51,700 Ping Yu: Would you consider yourself as a traditional breeder or a combination? 362 00:32:51,780 --> 00:33:01,989 Ping Yu: Well, I would think maybe a combination of the traditional breeder and also use some of the advanced tools in your breeding, 363 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:02,320 Ping Yu: right? 364 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:03,380 Lisa Alexander: Yeah. 365 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:11,780 Lisa Alexander: So that's an interesting question because I think plant breeders, you know, you get pushed towards different... 366 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:17,420 Lisa Alexander: towards the utilization of new and different technologies for your program, and that's fine. 367 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:28,820 Lisa Alexander: But I would call myself a traditional plant breeder at the end of the day because I think more in terms of, you know, population 368 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:38,860 Lisa Alexander: level cultivar development, population level methods of selection, like recurrent selection and backcross breeding and things like that. 369 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,040 Lisa Alexander: Of course, we have to stay abreast of the times. 370 00:33:42,100 --> 00:33:47,040 Lisa Alexander: We have to learn how to use technologies as they come. 371 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:55,480 Lisa Alexander: Part of that, again, is getting a great team of people around yourself, because not one person can do everything. 372 00:33:55,540 --> 00:34:01,740 Lisa Alexander: Another is knowing what technologies are going to be useful and what, you know, what maybe isn't. 373 00:34:01,870 --> 00:34:08,250 Lisa Alexander: There are technologies that might be useful to me when I'm breeding a hydrangea that are not going to be useful for a tea olive. 374 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:19,220 Lisa Alexander: Some of the tools that I use in tea olives are microsatellite markers, and these markers I use for the parental reconstruction because they're still 375 00:34:19,260 --> 00:34:21,460 Lisa Alexander: the best ways to do that. 376 00:34:21,490 --> 00:34:31,500 Lisa Alexander: They're not the newest technology, but as far as reliability and affordability and can you do it in your lab every season when you 377 00:34:31,540 --> 00:34:35,060 Lisa Alexander: have a batch of seedlings to screen, the answer is yes. 378 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:43,760 Lisa Alexander: So even though I'm a, I would say I'm a traditional breeder, most of the tea olive breeding is pollen to pistil, get the seed, grow out the 379 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:44,540 Lisa Alexander: seed and look at it. 380 00:34:45,100 --> 00:34:54,600 Lisa Alexander: But I do use tools, like I mentioned, the microscopy and the flow cytometry in pre-breeding to sort of narrow down and target what crosses I wanna make. 381 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,980 Lisa Alexander: And then I do the open-pollinated progeny reconstruction. 382 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:07,440 Lisa Alexander: I use molecular markers on the back end to avoid, you know, the one seed, one cross situation. 383 00:35:08,340 --> 00:35:10,440 Lisa Alexander: It makes a lot more... 384 00:35:10,940 --> 00:35:15,580 Lisa Alexander: It frees up my time to not have to make all those crosses that aren't even gonna germinate. 385 00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:23,740 Lisa Alexander: So it sort of gives a bias towards the ones that are going to germinate, and so you don't spend all your time on the ones that were 386 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:24,820 Lisa Alexander: never going to germinate. 387 00:35:25,380 --> 00:35:28,700 Lisa Alexander: Also, we're hoping to add new tools. 388 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:39,160 Lisa Alexander: We're hoping to add some controlled environment testing, just so for cold hardiness, just so that not all of our screening is, does it die in the field? 389 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:45,960 Lisa Alexander: So that will help save field space for even more advanced and promising selections. 390 00:35:46,740 --> 00:35:56,980 Lisa Alexander: And then as sequencing becomes cheaper, we will eventually use the sequence of both parents and really try the whole genome sequence of both 391 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:03,760 Lisa Alexander: parents to really try to look at how specific genes are passed to the offspring in osmanthus. 392 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:12,540 Lisa Alexander: And that's when you can really target things like bright orange flower color or, you know, some very specific trait that you might wanna manipulate. 393 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:13,440 Ping Yu: Mm-hmm. 394 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:13,660 Ping Yu: Yeah. 395 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:24,060 Ping Yu: Can you elaborate a little bit on the tools that will help you do the, like, resolve the problem with the one cross, one seed 396 00:36:24,820 --> 00:36:25,200 Ping Yu: issue? 397 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:26,780 Lisa Alexander: Well, I mean, there... 398 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,540 Lisa Alexander: Biologically, there's no way around it. 399 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:30,920 Lisa Alexander: It's one cross, one seed. 400 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:42,030 Lisa Alexander: But the way that you kind of overcome that, as I mentioned, is one, you really try to make targeted crosses so that you're not 401 00:36:42,060 --> 00:36:46,300 Lisa Alexander: you know, wasting your time on trying to baby ones along that aren't good. 402 00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:54,580 Lisa Alexander: Another thing is just, like I mentioned, to go backwards, it feels like, and really understand seed germination. 403 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,860 Lisa Alexander: You know, what is the dormancy? 404 00:36:56,900 --> 00:36:57,740 Lisa Alexander: What is happening? 405 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:04,320 Lisa Alexander: One cog in the wheel is that Osmanthus fragrans is adapted. 406 00:37:04,330 --> 00:37:04,780 Lisa Alexander: They don't... 407 00:37:04,820 --> 00:37:08,280 Lisa Alexander: They're evergreen, and at least in the US, they're semi-evergreen. 408 00:37:08,820 --> 00:37:17,520 Lisa Alexander: Osmanthus heterophyllus and armatus are temperate species, so they both have a cold stratification requirement that Osmanthus fragrans does not. 409 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:22,600 Lisa Alexander: So when you're talking about osmanthus seed germination, you do have to be species-specific. 410 00:37:23,230 --> 00:37:25,060 Lisa Alexander: And then when you have a hybrid seed, which is it? 411 00:37:25,620 --> 00:37:26,940 Lisa Alexander: Does it need stratification? 412 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,480 Lisa Alexander: Does it, does it not? 413 00:37:28,740 --> 00:37:33,460 Lisa Alexander: So those are challenges that we're having to face to over... 414 00:37:33,620 --> 00:37:38,180 Lisa Alexander: you know, to overcome that one cross, one seed issue. 415 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:49,650 Lisa Alexander: For molecular tools, an issue in osmanthus and many trees is that because they're not inbreeding, it's hard to develop the kind of experimental populations, 416 00:37:49,820 --> 00:37:56,280 Lisa Alexander: like an F2 population, that a geneticist would normally use to associate a certain trait with a gene. 417 00:37:57,020 --> 00:38:07,440 Lisa Alexander: And so as we're able, as sequencing gets cheaper, and as those technologies become more available for niche plants, we'll be able to sequence the parents of a cross 418 00:38:08,140 --> 00:38:18,460 Lisa Alexander: and, you know, sequence their, even their F1s crosses, and really try to pinpoint those specific individuals that have the genetics 419 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:19,240 Lisa Alexander: that we want. 420 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,620 Lisa Alexander: And again, that's just a way to target it, right? 421 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:30,640 Lisa Alexander: To save your manpower and your field space for the very most promising selections. 422 00:38:30,860 --> 00:38:31,100 Ping Yu: Yeah. 423 00:38:31,300 --> 00:38:40,080 Ping Yu: And I think there's a lot of things that can be done to improve the breeding for this specific tree or specific plant. 424 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:52,360 Ping Yu: (music) But how do you think, as a breeder, how can we work together to improve the popularity of 425 00:38:52,820 --> 00:38:55,740 Ping Yu: tea olive in general for a larger audience? 426 00:38:55,820 --> 00:39:04,120 Ping Yu: Because there are so many good cultivars and like the Qiannan, they have the pink little leaves. 427 00:39:04,300 --> 00:39:09,120 Ping Yu: And then the smell of the Osmanthus fragrans is just gorgeous. 428 00:39:09,180 --> 00:39:09,900 Ping Yu: They just... 429 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:20,160 Ping Yu: They're just so good, and so I would like the general public or more people would love this plant like we do. 430 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:20,579 Ping Yu: How... 431 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:27,960 Ping Yu: Are there any strategies that you can think of right now to help increase the popularity of this tree? 432 00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:30,060 Lisa Alexander: Well, I think we're doing it. 433 00:39:30,100 --> 00:39:30,110 Lisa Alexander: I... 434 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:30,600 Lisa Alexander: This is... 435 00:39:30,780 --> 00:39:31,200 Lisa Alexander: think I... 436 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:41,120 Lisa Alexander: This is it (laughs) But no, one of the strategies is to make sure that as Extension... 437 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:50,410 Lisa Alexander: as people that deal with producers and nursery growers to make sure that they know it, and to make sure that they have the resources to actually grow and 438 00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:51,460 Lisa Alexander: propagate the plant. 439 00:39:51,900 --> 00:40:02,160 Lisa Alexander: I mean, that is the number one way, because, yes, we can engage with consumers on the one-on-one level, 440 00:40:03,020 --> 00:40:13,280 Lisa Alexander: but the real surge in popularity is when it's gonna get adopted by the big box store or by (Ping Yu: Yeah) you know, a company, a product catalog 441 00:40:13,460 --> 00:40:16,570 Lisa Alexander: that gets to everybody's hands. 442 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:24,080 Lisa Alexander: And the way that's gonna be done is by getting one that can be propagated well, regularly, uniformly. 443 00:40:24,660 --> 00:40:31,820 Lisa Alexander: And so part of our breeding program, and Ping, yours, you've been working on this as well, is... 444 00:40:31,860 --> 00:40:38,040 Lisa Alexander: You know, I might have a good hybrid in my field, but if it's not easily rooted by cuttings, it's not gonna move forward. 445 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:44,040 Lisa Alexander: So one of the absolute cutoffs in my program is you have to be able to propagate the plant. 446 00:40:44,660 --> 00:40:55,420 Lisa Alexander: We're not releasing anything or promoting anything that is difficult to propagate, and when we do release this cultivar or cultivars, it will come with a how-to-grow 447 00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:00,780 Lisa Alexander: sheet that we will put in the grower's hands, say, "Here's the plant, here's how to grow it, here's how to market it." 448 00:41:01,580 --> 00:41:03,900 Lisa Alexander: And so I think that's gonna be huge. 449 00:41:04,620 --> 00:41:10,140 Lisa Alexander: And with anything, you know, it only takes one amazing plant to turn the tide. 450 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,420 Lisa Alexander: Think of Endless Summer hydrangea. 451 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:13,540 Ping Yu: Yes. 452 00:41:14,340 --> 00:41:24,520 Lisa Alexander: It, you know, if we could make a, you know, an orange sunset, right, osmanthus that can grow through Zone 453 00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:27,520 Lisa Alexander: 6, that could turn the tide. 454 00:41:27,940 --> 00:41:29,620 Lisa Alexander: And it only takes one plant. 455 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:30,840 Ping Yu: Yeah, you're right. 456 00:41:30,980 --> 00:41:41,020 Ping Yu: Yeah, the moment that you said Endless Summer hydrangea, I'm like, yeah, we need an Endless Summer, or like the orange-red 457 00:41:41,140 --> 00:41:43,070 Ping Yu: sunshine for osmanthus. 458 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:53,260 Lisa Alexander: My dream, my vision is a picture in a catalog of someone's home decorated for Christmas, but in front of the door, on each side of the front door 459 00:41:53,300 --> 00:41:57,040 Lisa Alexander: is a pot with an Osmanthus fragrans in full bloom. 460 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:07,940 Lisa Alexander: And imagine the scent if you walked up to somebody's door (Ping Yu: Yeah) and there were two blooming Osmanthus fragrans, glossy, green foliage, perfect for Christmas, 461 00:42:08,539 --> 00:42:10,520 Lisa Alexander: except there's actual blooming flowers. 462 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:16,280 Lisa Alexander: I mean, if that picture made it, you know, into one of the catalogs, that would be a good thing. 463 00:42:16,940 --> 00:42:18,240 Ping Yu: Yeah, that would be a game changer. 464 00:42:18,739 --> 00:42:25,160 Ping Yu: (laughs) Speaking of hydrangea, are there any other breeding programs that you are currently working on? 465 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:26,380 Lisa Alexander: Yes. 466 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,620 Lisa Alexander: Well, I'd say that hydrangea is my most active breeding program. 467 00:42:30,730 --> 00:42:39,000 Lisa Alexander: I have some sort of breeding going on for almost every species of hydrangea that we can grow here, as well as interspecific hybrids. 468 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,660 Lisa Alexander: I also do a lot of genomic work in hydrangea. 469 00:42:42,260 --> 00:42:52,740 Lisa Alexander: There is a little more market support, industry support for advanced breeding technologies for hydrangea, so I do a lot of work in that sphere 470 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:53,300 Lisa Alexander: as well. 471 00:42:53,980 --> 00:42:56,280 Lisa Alexander: Oakleaf hydrangea is one of my favorite plants. 472 00:42:56,380 --> 00:42:56,410 Ping Yu: Mm-hmm. 473 00:42:56,410 --> 00:42:58,180 Lisa Alexander: It's native to... 474 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,080 Lisa Alexander: I think, I love that we both like the plants where we live, that they... 475 00:43:02,180 --> 00:43:11,260 Lisa Alexander: And I really think that's true for so many people, that the plants really tie you to a place and, you know, to a period of your life, 476 00:43:11,329 --> 00:43:14,260 Lisa Alexander: for a lot of people, their childhood, and that can be very powerful. 477 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:20,720 Lisa Alexander: But I think oakleaf hydrangeas are great plants, and so I have a big breeding program for those as well. 478 00:43:21,500 --> 00:43:24,940 Lisa Alexander: Fringe tree, which is an osmanthus relative, we grow. 479 00:43:24,980 --> 00:43:31,960 Lisa Alexander: And then we have some evaluations and breeding for incense cedar, for manzanita, for other woodies. 480 00:43:32,780 --> 00:43:36,920 Lisa Alexander: And then I contribute to some of the programs, other programs at the National Arboretum. 481 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:43,490 Lisa Alexander: But hydrangea and tea olives are, I would say, my main two interests right now. 482 00:43:43,740 --> 00:43:44,280 Ping Yu: That's great. 483 00:43:44,340 --> 00:43:54,380 Ping Yu: Yeah, the reason why I asked that is because I kinda know that you're also working on hydrangea, too, but I didn't know that the hydrangea is another one of 484 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,580 Ping Yu: your favorite plant and it has tied to your childhood. 485 00:43:58,160 --> 00:43:59,180 Lisa Alexander: (laughs) That's right. 486 00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:05,560 Ping Yu: So what is the next exciting thing for you in your research, in your breeding world? 487 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:06,700 Lisa Alexander: Hmm. 488 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,180 Lisa Alexander: So many exciting things. 489 00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:10,920 Lisa Alexander: Well, as a breeder, every seed you sow is exciting. 490 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:16,780 Lisa Alexander: Every spring could be the one that is, this is the year where you see the magic plant. 491 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:22,200 Lisa Alexander: So there's something very exciting about being a plant breeder just in general. 492 00:44:22,900 --> 00:44:30,100 Lisa Alexander: Another thing that excites me is a lot of the work that ARS is doing with Breeding Insights. 493 00:44:30,740 --> 00:44:40,800 Lisa Alexander: So Agricultural Research Service has a goal of making or, sort of enabling all the crops we breed to be 494 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:48,880 Lisa Alexander: genome-enabled and have the same kind of technical or technology-based support that, you know, the big crops have. 495 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:55,360 Lisa Alexander: And I think that's really exciting, you know, because I've always worked in non-model, in woody crops. 496 00:44:55,740 --> 00:44:56,920 Lisa Alexander: You know, it feels like you don't... 497 00:44:57,380 --> 00:45:07,460 Lisa Alexander: You know, you get the crumb, like the technology crumbs that come down, you know, from other species. ARS is making an effort to really have 498 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,760 Lisa Alexander: those technologies transferred into all the crops. 499 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:21,800 Lisa Alexander: And so I think there is an exciting future for, definitely for hydrangeas, but even for tea olives and for fringe trees to 500 00:45:21,860 --> 00:45:27,580 Lisa Alexander: get to use some of those genome-enabled technologies to make improvements in those plants. 501 00:45:27,660 --> 00:45:29,210 Lisa Alexander: And so I'm really excited about that. 502 00:45:29,820 --> 00:45:30,420 Ping Yu: Yeah, that's cool. 503 00:45:30,460 --> 00:45:31,220 Ping Yu: If any... 504 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:40,519 Ping Yu: Right now, any little tiny improvement on any of those plants would make a big difference down the road with the breeding program that you're running. 505 00:45:40,580 --> 00:45:41,340 Ping Yu: Yeah, for sure. 506 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,260 Ping Yu: Can you... Lisa Alexander: Yeah, and as you know, it's not even all about my program. 507 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:46,440 Lisa Alexander: You know, you do your part. 508 00:45:46,500 --> 00:45:48,920 Lisa Alexander: It's like a train that's moving forward. 509 00:45:48,980 --> 00:45:57,000 Lisa Alexander: Like you get on and you get off and somebody else gets on, and the people that were behind us that brought in all these plants, that did the 510 00:45:57,060 --> 00:46:06,000 Lisa Alexander: effort, you know, they did their part, and we do our part, and hopefully, you know, the people that get on (laughs) after us get to really, you know, have 511 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:10,740 Lisa Alexander: the fruit of this genome-enabled work that we're sort of laying the groundwork for now. 512 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:11,800 Ping Yu: Yeah. 513 00:46:11,900 --> 00:46:14,420 Ping Yu: So carry on the legacy. 514 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:20,400 Ping Yu: Or (Lisa Alexander: That's right) I think there's one saying about what you just described it. 515 00:46:20,460 --> 00:46:27,040 Ping Yu: It says the people who plant the tree, and then the next generation will come in and enjoy the shade. 516 00:46:27,380 --> 00:46:27,620 Ping Yu: Right. 517 00:46:29,060 --> 00:46:36,420 Ping Yu: (music) Can you elaborate a little bit about your collaboration with National Arboretum? 518 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:41,860 Ping Yu: Do you do any work with them or with the plant exchange or anything? 519 00:46:42,580 --> 00:46:44,720 Lisa Alexander: So I work for the National Arboretum. 520 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:45,780 Ping Yu: Oh, yes. 521 00:46:45,940 --> 00:46:46,360 Lisa Alexander: Yes. 522 00:46:46,380 --> 00:46:51,220 Lisa Alexander: The Floral and Nursery Plants Research Unit is located in the National Arboretum. 523 00:46:51,800 --> 00:47:00,860 Lisa Alexander: And so we do, I mean, my colleagues do a lot of work, especially Todd Rounsaville. 524 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:09,940 Lisa Alexander: He manages the plant germplasm system for woodies, and so he does a lot of work with plant exploration, collection. 525 00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:15,240 Lisa Alexander: He's very passionate about that and excellent at maintaining those database and those records. 526 00:47:15,940 --> 00:47:26,160 Lisa Alexander: As far as osmanthus goes, we really rely on university colleagues because our ability to exchange plants 527 00:47:26,660 --> 00:47:28,760 Lisa Alexander: has been better in the past. 528 00:47:29,220 --> 00:47:29,480 Ping Yu: Yes. 529 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,200 Lisa Alexander: Right now, there's a lot going on between... 530 00:47:33,260 --> 00:47:43,380 Lisa Alexander: at universities where professors there are really leading the vanguard, and also commercial nurseries, saying we want access, you know, to these great 531 00:47:43,420 --> 00:47:43,989 Lisa Alexander: plants. 532 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:53,760 Lisa Alexander: And so, you know, I feel like it's my job to form relationships with those nursery owners and, you know, encourage them and then, you know, try to 533 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,140 Lisa Alexander: get those products, like once they're brought into the country. 534 00:47:57,260 --> 00:47:59,040 Lisa Alexander: So I currently... 535 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:09,520 Lisa Alexander: The Arboretum currently does not have ongoing activities in osmanthus exploration or exchange, but certainly in other species 536 00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:10,880 Lisa Alexander: are very active. 537 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:11,740 Ping Yu: Yeah. 538 00:48:11,769 --> 00:48:22,240 Ping Yu: And then I kind of get a piece of how the National Arboretum work in terms of with the big picture for exchanging plant materials 539 00:48:22,300 --> 00:48:25,000 Ping Yu: in general, is that one... 540 00:48:25,060 --> 00:48:35,160 Ping Yu: for your program you guys will collect all those species that you can from other resources, and now, and bring them back to the US and then for other 541 00:48:35,260 --> 00:48:44,640 Ping Yu: people who wanted to research on those, they're gonna come to you, and then you do the exchange or other format of exchange to make it happen, right? 542 00:48:44,820 --> 00:48:45,240 Lisa Alexander: That's right. 543 00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:45,500 Lisa Alexander: Yeah. 544 00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:50,440 Lisa Alexander: So I would say the first resource would be the National Plant Germplasm System. 545 00:48:50,920 --> 00:49:01,060 Lisa Alexander: So you would go to the GRIN interface website, and you can see what all osmanthus species, seed 546 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:10,880 Lisa Alexander: especially, are kept within the National Plant Germplasm System, and that would be the first place any researcher should go if they want to look for a plant. 547 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,480 Lisa Alexander: That's, you know, the reason it exists. 548 00:49:13,980 --> 00:49:24,360 Lisa Alexander: Then if, you know, you're reading a paper and you see, okay, Dr. Alexander has obviously trialed these 30 plants, then you could reach out to me, and 549 00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:34,540 Lisa Alexander: we can often do something under a plant evaluation agreement or a material transfer research agreement or any number of vehicles that, 550 00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:44,100 Lisa Alexander: that we use to, you know, share plant material with restrictions because we do want this to be shared. 551 00:49:44,140 --> 00:49:45,680 Lisa Alexander: I mean, that (Ping Yu: Yeah) the goal... 552 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:55,180 Lisa Alexander: One of the lovely things about working for the United States Department of Agriculture is we really are here to support the people in the industries of the United States, 553 00:49:55,280 --> 00:50:01,260 Lisa Alexander: not to be a, "This is my, you know, research pool and, you know, keep your hands off." 554 00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:07,320 Lisa Alexander: We want to be a node of distribution and not, like, a silo of collection. 555 00:50:07,780 --> 00:50:08,500 Lisa Alexander: Absolutely. 556 00:50:09,500 --> 00:50:10,100 Ping Yu: Yeah. 557 00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:10,280 Ping Yu: Yeah. 558 00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:20,840 Ping Yu: So with that in mind, if people wants to find more information about what you have done with your breeding work, not necessarily for osmanthus, but other species, where 559 00:50:20,940 --> 00:50:21,960 Ping Yu: do they... 560 00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,760 Ping Yu: Where do you recommend them go and look for more information on that? 561 00:50:25,860 --> 00:50:29,520 Lisa Alexander: Well, you can certainly look at the US National Arboretum website. 562 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:36,340 Lisa Alexander: That lists the scientists there and the projects that they work on and recent publications. 563 00:50:36,460 --> 00:50:46,820 Lisa Alexander: You can Google Lisa Alexander Osmanthus, and luckily, many of our journals today are open access, which is, I think, a wonderful way 564 00:50:46,940 --> 00:50:50,100 Lisa Alexander: to get more research out into the open. 565 00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,200 Lisa Alexander: And so a lot of those papers will just come up. 566 00:50:52,940 --> 00:50:57,940 Lisa Alexander: And I try to publish timely and let everybody know what I'm doing. 567 00:50:58,460 --> 00:51:08,560 Lisa Alexander: Also, I try to talk to stakeholders, to master gardeners, to scientific groups, and really talk about what we're doing 568 00:51:08,620 --> 00:51:10,840 Lisa Alexander: here and just promote osmanthus in general. 569 00:51:11,180 --> 00:51:19,790 Ping Yu: Yeah, that's great, 'cause I think we need to get the word out there more so that people would know this wonderful species a little bit more, and 570 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:21,580 Ping Yu: hopefully appreciate that more. 571 00:51:22,140 --> 00:51:31,920 Ping Yu: One of the reasons I do this podcast is to share the plant power to a larger audience so that people would appreciate horticulture in general a little 572 00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:32,480 Ping Yu: bit more. 573 00:51:32,860 --> 00:51:34,000 Lisa Alexander: Well, you do a great job. 574 00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:35,280 Ping Yu: Thank you. 575 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:45,100 Ping Yu: So thank you for taking out of your busy schedule, talking with us on this wonderful plant and all the great work that you have done 576 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,040 Ping Yu: and is doing down the road. 577 00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,020 Ping Yu: But thank you, Lisa. 578 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:50,340 Ping Yu: I really appreciate that. 579 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:52,340 Lisa Alexander: Thank you, Ping, for having me. 580 00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:53,100 Lisa Alexander: I appreciate it. 581 00:51:53,220 --> 00:51:53,760 Lisa Alexander: Have a great one. 582 00:51:54,620 --> 00:51:55,320 Ping Yu: Yeah, thank you. 583 00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:01,880 Ping Yu: (music) Conversation like this only happen when you support the show. 584 00:52:02,300 --> 00:52:08,140 Ping Yu: For more information and find ways to support us, please go to bandbpod.com. 585 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:10,880 Ping Yu: bandbpod.com. 586 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:16,700 Ping Yu: If you like what you are hearing, spread the word and share this podcast with the people you love. 587 00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:22,560 Ping Yu: Make sure you hit that subscription button and give a review for the podcast. 588 00:52:23,180 --> 00:52:32,940 Ping Yu: And as always, go check out the show notes to learn more about this topic and other topics we featured on the show at bandbpod.com. 589 00:52:33,300 --> 00:52:34,299 Ping Yu: Thank you for listening. 590 00:52:34,460 --> 00:52:37,380 Ping Yu: Till the next time, stay healthy and go plants! 591 00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:55,630 (music)