1 00:00:08,260 --> 00:00:13,360 Ping Yu: Hello everyone, welcome to the Blooms and Beyond podcast, a podcast that uncovers plant 2 00:00:13,620 --> 00:00:16,340 Ping Yu: history, culture, and management through the lens of science. 3 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:17,760 Ping Yu: I'm your host Ping. 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:18,840 Ping Yu: How's everyone doing today? 5 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:25,020 Ping Yu: I'm doing great because here I have a well-known researcher and a colleague of mine, Dr. James 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:25,580 Ping Yu: Faust. 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,540 Ping Yu: Joining me today to talk about botrytis blight. 8 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:33,640 Ping Yu: James has years of research experience in floriculture physiology. 9 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,820 Ping Yu: In today's episode, we'll pick his brain on blight control on ornamental crops. 10 00:00:39,480 --> 00:00:42,300 Ping Yu: So I don't want to steal any more thunder from our speaker today. 11 00:00:42,660 --> 00:00:44,000 Ping Yu: Let's just jump right into it. 12 00:00:44,220 --> 00:00:48,420 Ping Yu: Without further ado, here is my conversation with Dr. James Faust. 13 00:00:48,790 --> 00:00:50,060 Ping Yu: I hope you enjoy it. 14 00:00:55,100 --> 00:00:56,660 Ping Yu: Hi, Jim, welcome to the podcast. 15 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,480 Ping Yu: But first, let's start off with the introduction. 16 00:00:59,860 --> 00:01:03,580 Ping Yu: Can you tell our audience a little bit about who you are and what you do? 17 00:01:04,439 --> 00:01:11,140 Jim Faust: I appreciate coming on your podcast today. I look forward to the discussion. Yeah, I've been in 18 00:01:11,340 --> 00:01:16,280 Jim Faust: floriculture my whole career. I graduated from college in the 80s and got a job in the greenhouse 19 00:01:16,700 --> 00:01:22,840 Jim Faust: and just fell in love with that and have never gotten away. So I've been at a few different 20 00:01:23,140 --> 00:01:30,340 Jim Faust: universities and had grower jobs before that. And yeah, it's been a good career so far. 21 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:37,460 Ping Yu: Yeah, because I remember I met you at one of the AFE, the National Floral Forum meeting 22 00:01:37,700 --> 00:01:40,280 Ping Yu: a couple years ago back then when I was at grad school. 23 00:01:40,380 --> 00:01:43,440 Ping Yu: And I also met your student, Melissa, at the same meeting. 24 00:01:44,860 --> 00:01:49,020 Ping Yu: But what first sparked your interest in horticulture in general? 25 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:56,000 Ping Yu: Did you grow up as a nature kid or is this something that stumbled into this trajectory? 26 00:01:56,780 --> 00:02:01,619 Jim Faust: Yeah, yeah. I think most people that get into horticulture have had some childhood experience. 27 00:02:00,740 --> 00:02:00,880 Jim Faust: Yeah. 28 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:07,700 Jim Faust: And I'm the same. My parents always had gardens. My dad had a vegetable garden and 29 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,400 Jim Faust: my mother always had flowers around the house. And she would actually go out in the front yard and 30 00:02:13,220 --> 00:02:16,500 Jim Faust: you know, disbud or deadhead petunias. 31 00:02:16,650 --> 00:02:19,460 Jim Faust: And she would count how many petunias she would deadhead. 32 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,920 Jim Faust: And she was very proud of the fact that, you know, like every day she could go out there 33 00:02:23,920 --> 00:02:25,460 Jim Faust: and take 200 flowers off. 34 00:02:25,470 --> 00:02:29,840 Jim Faust: And yeah, so it was just kind of, I think all my siblings, I'm the only one who actually 35 00:02:29,870 --> 00:02:36,300 Jim Faust: made a living growing plants, but we all have a passion for plants and gardening. 36 00:02:37,300 --> 00:02:46,560 Ping Yu: Yeah, and speaking of the career, a lot of times we just had an episode on the potential or the opportunities in horticulture that never exist. 37 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:53,460 Ping Yu: People wouldn't think of so many different job opportunities that even exist for horticulture. 38 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:58,860 Ping Yu: All they think about is just produce plants, but there are so many opportunities. 39 00:02:58,700 --> 00:03:01,420 Ping Yu: hidden job opportunities within horticulture. 40 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,780 Ping Yu: But with all those plants that you have worked with, 41 00:03:04,860 --> 00:03:06,340 Ping Yu: that you have exposed to, 42 00:03:06,780 --> 00:03:09,940 Ping Yu: even with your family lineage with the plants. 43 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,120 Ping Yu: Is there a plant that is your favorite plant? 44 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:27,860 Jim Faust: Yeah, you know, there's no such thing as a bad plant, but, you know, I have a soft spot for poinsettias. 45 00:03:28,330 --> 00:03:37,760 Jim Faust: You know, it's kind of a very commercial crop that, you know, it's beautiful, but I don't think a lot of people are really passionate about it because it's just kind of this commodity item. 46 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:45,660 Jim Faust: And yet it's got to be one of the most interesting plants really in the world in the way it has... 47 00:03:46,420 --> 00:03:52,599 Jim Faust: really become domesticated. It has a storyline that is just unlike any other plant. A lot of 48 00:03:52,860 --> 00:03:58,080 Jim Faust: intrigue, you know, a lot of, you know, it really, you know, wasn't an important plant 200 years ago. 49 00:03:58,700 --> 00:04:02,160 Jim Faust: And then, you know, Joel Poinsett brought the plant to the United States and 50 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:08,540 Jim Faust: And it kind of caught on a little bit, but it wasn't really until the 1900s, early 1900s, 51 00:04:08,549 --> 00:04:14,439 Jim Faust: where it really became a commercial success and became really associated with Christmas. 52 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,620 Jim Faust: And anyway, that journey is fascinating to me. 53 00:04:17,919 --> 00:04:21,979 Jim Faust: I've been working on a book for a number of years, trying to communicate that story. 54 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:26,580 Jim Faust: It's hard finding time away from my day job to write a book. 55 00:04:26,780 --> 00:04:29,740 Jim Faust: But I'm still hopeful that I can get this done before I retire. 56 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,360 Jim Faust: Because it's just a fantastic story. 57 00:04:32,890 --> 00:04:33,620 Jim Faust: It needs to be told. 58 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:35,580 Ping Yu: Yeah, yeah. 59 00:04:35,830 --> 00:04:41,100 Ping Yu: And I think to begin with, right now, a lot of people were just thinking about poinsettia 60 00:04:41,150 --> 00:04:48,400 Ping Yu: as those little tiny plants in the container that they were going to go by during or before Christmas. 61 00:04:49,220 --> 00:04:57,980 Ping Yu: But in reality, when it first started, when it first discovered, it was actually a pretty big shrub right in the wild. 62 00:04:58,260 --> 00:04:58,400 Jim Faust: Yeah. 63 00:04:58,900 --> 00:05:05,180 Jim Faust: Yeah, so it's a plant that will get 12, 15 feet tall in its native location in Mexico. 64 00:05:06,310 --> 00:05:13,479 Jim Faust: And so, you know, that was part of the domestication process really through the 1960s and 70s, 65 00:05:13,659 --> 00:05:16,699 Jim Faust: where a lot of breeding really started in the U.S. 66 00:05:17,300 --> 00:05:23,300 Jim Faust: and really took this plant that actually had been a successful cut flower in the early 1900s. 67 00:05:24,300 --> 00:05:26,979 Jim Faust: But it really wasn't a very good plant. 68 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,260 Jim Faust: plant for greenhouse production because it was such a big plant. 69 00:05:30,790 --> 00:05:35,980 Jim Faust: And then, of course, growth regulators came into existence in the 1950s, and so that helped. 70 00:05:36,390 --> 00:05:43,200 Jim Faust: And then breeding helped to create more compact plants that just didn't want to get, you know, 71 00:05:43,270 --> 00:05:48,160 Jim Faust: six feet tall. And so that really allowed it to become a commercial success. 72 00:05:48,940 --> 00:06:06,080 Ping Yu: And I think though people just get so used to poinsettia, seeing them every year, but there's a lot of brilliant work behind the saying that people keep bringing new varieties to the market, even though a normal consumer wouldn't notice the difference. 73 00:06:06,500 --> 00:06:11,520 Ping Yu: But there's a lot of hard work behind the saying that trying to bring new varieties. 74 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,940 Ping Yu: New varieties to the market every year, right? 75 00:06:14,380 --> 00:06:14,560 Ping Yu: Yeah. 76 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:16,780 Jim Faust: You know, you'd be surprised. 77 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,220 Jim Faust: You know, there's dozens and dozens of commercial varieties available. 78 00:06:20,900 --> 00:06:27,280 Jim Faust: You know, if I just walk into a greenhouse with, you know, 36 different varieties of red, you'd like really... 79 00:06:27,599 --> 00:06:29,159 Jim Faust: can't tell most of them apart. 80 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,220 Jim Faust: It's, you know, the physical appearance of them is not that variable. 81 00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:38,240 Jim Faust: It's more the production traits that are the targets for breeders. 82 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,000 Jim Faust: Because really the consumer has in mind what the plant should look like, 83 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:43,720 Jim Faust: so you really can't change that very much. 84 00:06:44,099 --> 00:06:45,900 Jim Faust: You can get some different colors, but still, 85 00:06:46,539 --> 00:06:48,740 Jim Faust: you know, if it's not red, it doesn't sell that well. 86 00:06:48,819 --> 00:06:51,220 Jim Faust: We have orange and yellow and green 87 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,500 Jim Faust: poinsettias and they're really pretty cool looking. 88 00:06:54,780 --> 00:06:57,699 Jim Faust: But, you know, that, you know, people are buying these things 89 00:06:57,840 --> 00:06:59,620 Jim Faust: for gifts for a specific holiday. 90 00:06:59,860 --> 00:07:03,500 Jim Faust: And so, you know, if it's not red, it just doesn't sell very well. 91 00:07:03,699 --> 00:07:06,000 Jim Faust: So so the breeders have really emphasized 92 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:12,340 Jim Faust: production characteristics. So that'd be something like heat tolerance. If a poinsettia variety is 93 00:07:12,420 --> 00:07:19,540 Jim Faust: heat tolerant, then it's much more easily produced in Georgia and South Carolina and Florida. And we 94 00:07:19,540 --> 00:07:24,620 Jim Faust: have varieties that really can't be grown in those states very well because of a lack of heat tolerance. 95 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:31,700 Jim Faust: So characteristics like that are really what breeders are looking for. So the consumer might not 96 00:07:32,220 --> 00:07:35,340 Jim Faust: I appreciate that there's a lot of different poinsettia varieties out there. 97 00:07:36,500 --> 00:07:36,680 Ping Yu: Yeah. 98 00:07:37,940 --> 00:07:49,020 Ping Yu: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it would be the number one cut flower or floral crop in the United States that has been purchased by a consumer. 99 00:07:49,150 --> 00:07:52,800 Ping Yu: If it's not the orchids, it must be those two. 100 00:07:53,340 --> 00:07:53,460 Jim Faust: Yeah. 101 00:07:53,660 --> 00:07:56,200 Jim Faust: It's orchids and poinsettias as potted flowering plants. 102 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:57,000 Jim Faust: Yeah. 103 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:57,680 Jim Faust: Yeah. 104 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:04,220 Jim Faust: And of course, orchids has the advantage in that you can sell those 52 weeks out of the year. 105 00:08:04,820 --> 00:08:07,400 Jim Faust: Poinsettia is really only sold for about four weeks out of the year. 106 00:08:07,620 --> 00:08:13,760 Jim Faust: So that's kind of impressive that you can be the leading product plant with only basically a four to five week market. 107 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:20,740 Ping Yu: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 108 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:27,800 Ping Yu: But every time when we mention your name, it has a close, it normally ties close to 109 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:35,380 Ping Yu: and Botrytis Blight. And that's basically, you have worked on this project specifically for 110 00:08:35,660 --> 00:08:43,840 Ping Yu: Botrytis Blight Control for years. But can you first start by telling us what is Botrytis and 111 00:08:44,030 --> 00:08:50,120 Ping Yu: what is the agent and how did you start the work on this in the first place? 112 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:56,260 Jim Faust: Sure. Yeah, I do not have a degree in plant pathology. And actually, I've never actually 113 00:08:56,390 --> 00:09:00,880 Jim Faust: taken a plant pathology course in my life. But I think I have an honorary degree by now 114 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:06,060 Jim Faust: for the work that we've really been doing botrytis work now for eight years. And that 115 00:09:06,140 --> 00:09:08,040 Jim Faust: really started with a discussion with 116 00:09:09,500 --> 00:09:18,779 Jim Faust: So we got involved with Botrytis really eight years ago when I was discussing research topics with the board at the American Floral Endowment. 117 00:09:18,940 --> 00:09:30,980 Jim Faust: And they had identified that Botrytis and thrips were the two main industry issues that the endowment really needed to address with the research program. 118 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,399 Jim Faust: And I'm not a pathologist, but I have a... 119 00:09:35,420 --> 00:09:39,320 Jim Faust: pathologist colleague at Clemson, who's actually a fruit pathologist. 120 00:09:39,390 --> 00:09:42,320 Jim Faust: So he works with peaches and strawberries and with strawberries, 121 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,420 Jim Faust: botrytis is the major or one of the important pathogens. 122 00:09:46,220 --> 00:09:49,740 Jim Faust: And so he was all on board to kind of be the scientific 123 00:09:50,300 --> 00:09:52,840 Jim Faust: leader of the project, and then I would get the work done. 124 00:09:53,350 --> 00:09:57,180 Jim Faust: And so we made a pretty good team and have been really working on 125 00:09:57,300 --> 00:10:00,020 Jim Faust: now botrytis for a number of years, and I think we've made some nice progress. 126 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:18,620 Ping Yu: Yeah, yeah, botrytis, you're right. And one of the, I think, the biggest host plants for botrytis is the strawberry from the small fruit perspective. And what is the agent of the botrytis? We're both not plant pathologists, but I have been working with plant pathogen scientists. 127 00:10:18,220 --> 00:10:20,080 Ping Yu: a little bit just what you did. 128 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,920 Ping Yu: But then you definitely have more experience on that. 129 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:28,180 Ping Yu: But can we talk a little bit about the agent and then move towards to some of the basics 130 00:10:28,700 --> 00:10:33,340 Ping Yu: of plant pathology parts such as the disease triangle from that route? 131 00:10:34,220 --> 00:10:41,779 Jim Faust: Sure. So, you know, we think of the disease is gray mold or botrytis blight, but the organism 132 00:10:41,980 --> 00:10:51,100 Jim Faust: that causes the disease is Botrytis cinerea. And it's a ubiquitous pathogen. It produces airborne 133 00:10:51,420 --> 00:10:56,920 Jim Faust: spores that are probably in my office here today and in your office over there. You really can't 134 00:10:57,350 --> 00:11:03,779 Jim Faust: get away from it. It's 135 00:10:58,620 --> 00:11:00,199 Jim Faust: It's omnipresent. 136 00:11:00,899 --> 00:11:03,980 Jim Faust: And so disease management is a challenge. 137 00:11:04,839 --> 00:11:08,880 Jim Faust: And so we think of disease management with any diseases. 138 00:11:09,380 --> 00:11:12,920 Jim Faust: We use the disease triangle as the kind of the model. 139 00:11:13,459 --> 00:11:15,600 Jim Faust: And so there are three things that kind of, 140 00:11:15,899 --> 00:11:22,640 Jim Faust: have to happen simultaneously in order for you to have a disease occur. And that is you, 141 00:11:22,940 --> 00:11:28,339 Jim Faust: one, have to have the pathogen present. And like I mentioned, botrytis is always going to be present. 142 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,839 Jim Faust: It can be, you know, present in higher populations in some greenhouses, but, you know, it's always 143 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:40,399 Jim Faust: present. So you really can't exclude it. And exclusion is, you know, a means of control for a 144 00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:41,640 Jim Faust: not for Botrytis. 145 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,860 Jim Faust: The second corner of the disease triangle is that you have to have the right environment 146 00:11:46,380 --> 00:11:48,760 Jim Faust: for that spore to germinate and grow. 147 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,060 Jim Faust: And Botrytis requires temp... 148 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,280 Jim Faust: Well, it has a broad array of temperatures that it grows under, 149 00:11:55,800 --> 00:12:00,340 Jim Faust: but ideally around 65 to 70 is the ideal temperature. 150 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:09,480 Jim Faust: But you'll even have Botrytis becoming a big problem in a box of flowers that's in a 40-degree cooler. 151 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:27,920 Jim Faust: So it takes longer at cool temperatures for it to grow, but it will grow at all temperatures. But high 60s, low 70s is kind of ideal. And you have to have high humidity and or a period where the leaves stay wet or the tissue stays wet for a long period of time. 152 00:12:28,500 --> 00:12:29,980 Jim Faust: So that's the conducive environment. 153 00:12:30,070 --> 00:12:33,140 Jim Faust: And of course, in a greenhouse, we almost always have high humidity too. 154 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:39,480 Jim Faust: So, you know, that is what makes it a bit challenging to control because you have the 155 00:12:39,589 --> 00:12:44,940 Jim Faust: disease present, you have the organism present, you have the environment. 156 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:49,080 Jim Faust: And, you know, it's kind of funny, I talk about this all the time and all of a sudden 157 00:12:49,300 --> 00:12:50,779 Jim Faust: the third part of the triangle. 158 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:51,640 Jim Faust: Host plant. 159 00:12:52,220 --> 00:12:53,120 Jim Faust: Oh, thank you. 160 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:54,019 Jim Faust: Oh, my gosh. 161 00:12:54,820 --> 00:13:14,460 Jim Faust: Yep. So you have to have a susceptible host. And, of course, with flowers and greenhouses, almost all flowers are susceptible. So that's a bit of a challenge. So you have a kind of a perfect storm in greenhouse environments. And that's why it's a problem in kind of every greenhouse on every crop, the floriculture crop. So, yeah. 162 00:12:58,170 --> 00:12:58,279 Jim Faust: Yeah. 163 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,600 Jim Faust: Yeah, that's why we never really get away from it. 164 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,399 Jim Faust: And we'll never really solve the problem. 165 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,160 Jim Faust: It's never going to go away. 166 00:13:21,420 --> 00:13:25,680 Jim Faust: It's not like some diseases where eventually you kind of eradicate them. 167 00:13:25,820 --> 00:13:27,980 Jim Faust: It's just always a problem. 168 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,839 Jim Faust: So the challenge you have is really to manage the situation, 169 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:38,740 Jim Faust: choosing varieties that have a bit more resistance. 170 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:40,300 Jim Faust: And that is 171 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,860 Jim Faust: you know, it does work, but within every type of flower, there are going to be, you know, 172 00:13:45,890 --> 00:13:50,640 Jim Faust: some really sensitive varieties. Like with roses, you know, the red varieties are pretty good. They're 173 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:55,779 Jim Faust: not that bad for resistance, but then you get some of the novel colors and then they're really 174 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:01,519 Jim Faust: weak. And of course, you just can't sell red roses. So you end up having to grow these varieties that 175 00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:10,279 Jim Faust: are a bit weaker. Yeah. So you just really can't avoid having humid conditions in greenhouses. So 176 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:18,520 Jim Faust: This leads us to some really having to traditionally or conventional approaches to do fungicide application on a preventative schedule. 177 00:14:19,340 --> 00:14:27,500 Jim Faust: And of course, we learned from IPM management that we really don't like to do preventative applications. 178 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,600 Jim Faust: Because you end up with a lot of fungicide being applied. 179 00:14:32,020 --> 00:14:34,400 Jim Faust: And some industries have... 180 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,660 Jim Faust: approach this a little bit differently, like the strawberry industry in the Southeast 181 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,600 Jim Faust: has had a novel approach. They have basically, you can put a weather station into a field, 182 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:50,200 Jim Faust: and then that weather station measures when the environment is right for the spores to germinate, 183 00:14:50,470 --> 00:14:55,340 Jim Faust: and actually then communicates to the grower electronically that now we're under a period of 184 00:14:55,460 --> 00:14:55,820 Jim Faust: high risk. 185 00:14:56,580 --> 00:15:02,820 Jim Faust: And then the grower can time their applications of fungicides to the actual need rather than 186 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:04,340 Jim Faust: doing a preventative program. 187 00:15:04,530 --> 00:15:09,980 Jim Faust: Like instead of spraying every week, you actually just spray on when there's actually a high 188 00:15:10,170 --> 00:15:10,300 Jim Faust: risk. 189 00:15:10,730 --> 00:15:14,480 Jim Faust: So that can really reduce the number of applications of fungicides that one uses. 190 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,360 Jim Faust: Again, challenging in the greenhouse is that we're almost always humid. 191 00:15:18,860 --> 00:15:23,940 Jim Faust: It's not like a field situation where if you have three weeks of no rain, then there's 192 00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:24,700 Jim Faust: very little risk. 193 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,920 Jim Faust: And so greenhouse is really more difficult. 194 00:15:29,319 --> 00:15:29,459 Ping Yu: Yeah. 195 00:15:30,380 --> 00:15:30,540 Ping Yu: Yeah. 196 00:15:30,540 --> 00:15:37,819 Ping Yu: Greenhouse basically created a perfect environment for botrytis or any given pathogen in there. 197 00:15:38,259 --> 00:15:39,839 Ping Yu: The humidity is always there. 198 00:15:40,139 --> 00:15:43,240 Ping Yu: And then the environment with the temperature is always there. 199 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,860 Ping Yu: Like you said, the temperature and high humidity in greenhouse, 200 00:15:47,620 --> 00:15:52,480 Ping Yu: almost perfectly serve the bubble for the pest to survive. 201 00:15:53,220 --> 00:16:00,600 Ping Yu: But in terms of the host range, I know Botrytis has a wide host range and roses are very susceptible. 202 00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:06,800 Ping Yu: And can you name some of our flowers or ornamental plants that are pretty susceptible? 203 00:16:07,779 --> 00:16:17,300 Ping Yu: I guess almost all those ornamental flowers or ornamental crops in greenhouse are somewhat susceptible to botrytis. 204 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:17,480 Ping Yu: Yeah. 205 00:16:17,420 --> 00:16:24,160 Ping Yu: But what is the most susceptible of the plant that you know of? 206 00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:29,740 Jim Faust: Yeah, well, within a plant, even like a rose, which we know is highly susceptible, there's 207 00:16:29,940 --> 00:16:31,740 Jim Faust: different susceptibilities amongst the tissues. 208 00:16:32,540 --> 00:16:37,000 Jim Faust: So like the leaves and the stems don't get botrytis so badly, but the petals are really 209 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:37,480 Jim Faust: susceptible. 210 00:16:38,220 --> 00:16:42,880 Jim Faust: And where we have trouble in greenhouse production tends to be in the spring, where you have a 211 00:16:43,380 --> 00:17:00,440 Jim Faust: bedding plant type flowers in the greenhouse. And then we have a week or two of cloudy, rainy weather, and it's cool. And so the garden centers aren't selling product, like sales are slow. And then the grower has a lot of flowering plants in the greenhouse that they're having to hold and they can't ship. 212 00:17:01,140 --> 00:17:05,179 Jim Faust: And that's when we tend to have big outbursts in production. 213 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,579 Jim Faust: And again, almost every flower can get botrytis. 214 00:17:09,959 --> 00:17:12,679 Jim Faust: Petunias and pansies would be some of the worst. 215 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,000 Jim Faust: But they can also be, you know, botrytis is also a post-harvest pathogen. 216 00:17:17,199 --> 00:17:20,040 Jim Faust: So as is the case with roses and often with petunias, 217 00:17:21,020 --> 00:17:27,020 Jim Faust: In the greenhouse, you might not see a lot of infection, but then you harvest those, put them in a box or put them on a truck. 218 00:17:27,459 --> 00:17:31,980 Jim Faust: You know, that truck is, you know, on a plants around carts wrapped in saran. 219 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:38,880 Jim Faust: You deliver them and really over a 24-hour period, all the spores that are there germinate and start to grow. 220 00:17:39,020 --> 00:17:43,419 Jim Faust: And you take those plants off the truck and the flowers are all melted down. 221 00:17:43,940 --> 00:17:49,400 Jim Faust: So, you know, so petunia flower meltdown is what we would call that, you know, can occur pretty dramatically. 222 00:17:49,500 --> 00:17:54,100 Jim Faust: Even though the plants in the greenhouse might look okay, they show up at the garden center and in bad shape. 223 00:17:55,419 --> 00:18:02,020 Ping Yu: Yeah, I think one of the ways that botrytis gets into the plant tissue is through the wound, especially for cut flowers. 224 00:18:02,820 --> 00:18:09,000 Ping Yu: you're already generating the wound for this pathogen to invade the plant. 225 00:18:09,179 --> 00:18:14,159 Ping Yu: So it serves perfectly and makes them easier to get into the plant. 226 00:18:14,559 --> 00:18:20,399 Ping Yu: But in greenhouse itself, before we're not talking about cut flowers here at this moment, 227 00:18:20,529 --> 00:18:25,600 Ping Yu: just in general for the greenhouse productions for ornamental plants, 228 00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:29,799 Ping Yu: how does this pathogen spread in the greenhouse? 229 00:18:29,970 --> 00:18:30,700 Ping Yu: Does it... 230 00:18:30,820 --> 00:18:38,880 Ping Yu: with wind and water splash or any other practices that will help them to spread widely within the greenhouse? 231 00:18:39,929 --> 00:18:43,179 Jim Faust: Yes, spreading is entirely by air movement. 232 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:49,179 Jim Faust: And so, when tissue starts to die and decay, 233 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:57,040 Jim Faust: Botrytis can grow on that tissue and then it has a bloom of gray mold, hence the common name or 234 00:18:57,580 --> 00:19:03,780 Jim Faust: pathogen name. And then that mold can produce millions and billions of spores that 235 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,520 Jim Faust: then float around the greenhouse and land on other tissue and germinate. So, 236 00:19:09,020 --> 00:19:13,200 Jim Faust: Sometimes if you have more air movement, you actually can spread the plants, the disease 237 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:13,680 Jim Faust: more. 238 00:19:14,180 --> 00:19:16,060 Jim Faust: But really the issue is not the air itself. 239 00:19:16,620 --> 00:19:22,620 Jim Faust: It's that you have allowed plants in the greenhouse to get to the point of producing 240 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:23,180 Jim Faust: spores. 241 00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:30,620 Jim Faust: So this is why sanitation ends up being such a critical aspect of disease management. 242 00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:47,080 Jim Faust: If you don't let debris sitting on the ground or on the floor or wounded plant tissue on the plant itself, if you keep the facility clean, then you'll minimize the number of spores that are being produced in the facility. 243 00:19:47,310 --> 00:19:53,780 Jim Faust: You won't eliminate them, but if you can reduce the amount of inoculum, then you certainly have less disease. 244 00:19:54,720 --> 00:20:11,600 Ping Yu: Yeah. And so does the gray mold serve the first sign of the invasion of the disease? What is the first sign of that? And where should people go detect the early signs before taking any actions? 245 00:20:12,580 --> 00:20:27,360 Jim Faust: Sure. So the first signs are often a small lesion, you know, a small spot that is often beige colored. And regardless of the flower petal color, the spots tend to be beige like. 246 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:45,760 Jim Faust: And you can scout crops to look for spots where you, on denser plant canopies, especially we hit these cool, wet periods of the year, you can actually have leaves down in the canopy that are rotting on, say, they're wet on the soil surface. 247 00:20:46,289 --> 00:20:48,000 Jim Faust: And so, and you start to... 248 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,640 Jim Faust: disrupt or disturb that canopy and you'll see spores floating around. 249 00:20:52,940 --> 00:20:59,400 Jim Faust: So you can scout the canopy as a source of inoculum or scout the flowers in terms of looking 250 00:20:59,580 --> 00:21:00,620 Jim Faust: for small spots. 251 00:21:01,460 --> 00:21:05,660 Jim Faust: Once those spots start to occur, then they spread and get bigger. 252 00:21:06,419 --> 00:21:12,580 Jim Faust: Botrytis is a necrotroph, meaning it actually devours and kills the cells as it goes along. 253 00:21:12,860 --> 00:21:19,000 Jim Faust: So as it infects tissue, it's basically sucking out the goodies within the plant cells. 254 00:21:19,639 --> 00:21:22,460 Jim Faust: And so as it does that, it kills that cell and goes to the next one. 255 00:21:22,659 --> 00:21:25,519 Jim Faust: So you start out with a small lesion that gets bigger and bigger. 256 00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:31,840 Jim Faust: And then if you have high humidity conditions, you will have sporulation and that lesion will 257 00:21:32,340 --> 00:21:34,320 Jim Faust: put out this bloom of gray spores. 258 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,000 Jim Faust: And, you know, when you get to that point, then you're kind of in trouble. 259 00:21:39,260 --> 00:21:42,780 Ping Yu: Yeah, you know, a lot of times for pest or disease. 260 00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:51,260 Ping Yu: The best strategy is to prevent them from happening so that you don't have to deal with the big issue or the big trouble. 261 00:21:51,780 --> 00:21:57,100 Ping Yu: But it's what happens, then you sometimes if to... 262 00:21:57,340 --> 00:22:03,559 Ping Yu: If it's too late, you have to lose the game by throwing them out and start over. 263 00:22:04,289 --> 00:22:04,539 Jim Faust: Yeah. 264 00:22:05,660 --> 00:22:16,240 Ping Yu: In terms of once people detect the signs and symptoms of the disease, the next thing that they need to do is to take actions for management to manage this pest. 265 00:22:16,740 --> 00:22:27,060 Ping Yu: And you briefly mentioned some of the traditional or the chemicals or chemistry that's basically the go-to tools for a lot of growers to manage disease. 266 00:22:27,740 --> 00:22:31,900 Ping Yu: But you have worked a lot of research on the... 267 00:22:33,020 --> 00:22:38,260 Ping Yu: biorational products to control the disease specifically. 268 00:22:42,900 --> 00:22:51,320 Ping Yu: Can you tell us what is the difference between the traditional chemicals versus biorational products? 269 00:22:51,940 --> 00:22:56,420 Ping Yu: And what are some of the commonly used biorational products for floriculture? 270 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:15,340 Jim Faust: Yeah. So if we go back, really, the first line of defense is always the environment. So if we can have a drier environment, that is always the best thing we can do. It's just sometimes we can't do that. So then the next line of defense traditionally has been chemical control. And we have chemicals that work. 271 00:23:15,919 --> 00:23:21,779 Jim Faust: or fungicides that work really well against botrytis until botrytis develops resistance 272 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:27,419 Jim Faust: to those products. So fungicide resistance is a real problem with botrytis because botrytis, 273 00:23:28,380 --> 00:23:33,679 Jim Faust: it's interesting in that it doesn't have a sexual stage. So most organisms, 274 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:39,700 Jim Faust: you get mutation or changing of the, you get changes in the genetics and the 275 00:23:40,019 --> 00:23:44,679 Jim Faust: when the offspring, when you have genes mixed between two parents, and then you have a unique 276 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:50,779 Jim Faust: offspring. With botrytis, it doesn't have that sexual reproduction. It just reproduces asexually, 277 00:23:50,799 --> 00:23:58,380 Jim Faust: and the way it then creates genetic uniqueness is by mutating, and it mutates very aggressively 278 00:23:59,260 --> 00:24:06,080 Jim Faust: and continually. And so when you apply a fungicide that has a very specific 279 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:14,360 Jim Faust: mode of action where it is interrupting one very critical process in like biochemical process within 280 00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:20,720 Jim Faust: the plant you know it can work really well it can keep the botrytis from you know growing but 281 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:27,480 Jim Faust: one single gene mutation will allow the the fungus to get around that mode of action 282 00:24:28,220 --> 00:24:44,860 Jim Faust: So even if only 1% of the off, like the mutated fungi has that mutation, then, but that mutated form, the successful form, the form that's resistant to the fungicide, will produce the next generation of spores. 283 00:24:45,450 --> 00:24:49,740 Jim Faust: And so with every application of a fungicide, you are selecting for resistance. 284 00:24:50,559 --> 00:24:55,580 Jim Faust: And when we really have a pretty limited number of products that work effectively for botrytis, 285 00:24:55,820 --> 00:24:59,380 Jim Faust: growers have historically just sprayed the same thing again and again. 286 00:24:59,850 --> 00:25:03,539 Jim Faust: And as a result, we have more and more resistance to those products. 287 00:25:04,750 --> 00:25:10,179 Jim Faust: And so again, if you have no resistance, fungicides we have are really, really good. 288 00:25:10,659 --> 00:25:15,159 Jim Faust: The problem is, over time, there's more and more resistance developed. 289 00:25:16,020 --> 00:25:21,140 Jim Faust: So that's where we've been working on bio-rationals as an alternative. 290 00:25:22,039 --> 00:25:29,039 Jim Faust: Really, the goal is not necessarily to not have chemical fungicide application, but to 291 00:25:29,130 --> 00:25:35,380 Jim Faust: reduce the number of applications we're making so that if we can space out our chemical applications 292 00:25:35,919 --> 00:25:38,400 Jim Faust: more, then the chemicals we have will last longer. 293 00:25:38,910 --> 00:25:42,980 Jim Faust: You know, if we just keep rotating the three or four products that work again and again, 294 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:43,860 Jim Faust: you're going to have resistance. 295 00:25:44,580 --> 00:25:53,340 Jim Faust: So, if we can interrupt those rotations with other products, then you have less resistance 296 00:25:53,679 --> 00:25:54,200 Jim Faust: to deal with. 297 00:25:54,380 --> 00:25:58,419 Jim Faust: So, biorationals is kind of an option. 298 00:25:59,220 --> 00:26:02,320 Jim Faust: And by biorational, it's kind of a vague term. 299 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,139 Jim Faust: It almost means anything that's not a chemical. 300 00:26:06,799 --> 00:26:08,260 Jim Faust: It's a synthetic chemical. 301 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,279 Jim Faust: And so, there's a lot of different products fall under that umbrella. 302 00:26:13,020 --> 00:26:19,900 Jim Faust: people often think of as biological products would be what I would call biocontrol agents. 303 00:26:20,620 --> 00:26:24,039 Jim Faust: Biocontrol agents are where you actually have a living organism that you're applying. 304 00:26:24,900 --> 00:26:31,039 Jim Faust: And so that's like a specific type of biorational, but there's really four or five different, 305 00:26:31,110 --> 00:26:37,500 Jim Faust: and I'll mention each of them. But biocontrol agents are probably the trickiest products to 306 00:26:37,620 --> 00:26:41,780 Jim Faust: use because they actually have to live on the plant tissue to be effective. 307 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,360 Jim Faust: And that can be challenging for multiple reasons. 308 00:26:45,659 --> 00:26:50,519 Jim Faust: One, you may have other chemicals on the plant that potentially kill the organism. 309 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:56,380 Jim Faust: And so they might not have compatibility with other things you're spraying, or they 310 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,260 Jim Faust: can actually compete against each other in some cases. 311 00:26:59,919 --> 00:27:01,820 Jim Faust: Or in the case of botrytis, you're trying to get 312 00:27:02,460 --> 00:27:05,400 Jim Faust: the biological organism to live on the foliage. 313 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,600 Jim Faust: And a lot of these bio-control agents are really more happy in the soil. 314 00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:14,900 Jim Faust: And so the aerial environment is a much harsher environment. 315 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,400 Jim Faust: And it gets drier, it's hotter, it's sunnier. 316 00:27:19,039 --> 00:27:21,840 Jim Faust: So for the biological control agents to actually 317 00:27:22,900 --> 00:27:25,960 Jim Faust: colonized plant tissue is kind of difficult. 318 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,120 Jim Faust: And so our success with bio control agents is kind of limited. 319 00:27:31,740 --> 00:27:32,880 Jim Faust: It's not to say they don't work. 320 00:27:33,180 --> 00:27:37,080 Jim Faust: They can work, but it's certainly a harder approach. 321 00:27:37,820 --> 00:27:42,120 Jim Faust: Some of the other options would be bio fungicides, where you actually have a 322 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:49,320 Jim Faust: biologically based compound that is effective against fungal growth. 323 00:27:49,980 --> 00:27:53,919 Jim Faust: And if you apply that, it's kind of just like applying a fungicide. 324 00:27:53,950 --> 00:27:56,240 Jim Faust: It just happens to be a biological based fungicide. 325 00:27:56,830 --> 00:28:02,140 Jim Faust: And so we have examples of that and they do work and don't have to live. 326 00:28:02,140 --> 00:28:03,640 Jim Faust: They're not living organisms. 327 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:04,940 Jim Faust: They're just compounds. 328 00:28:05,450 --> 00:28:08,740 Jim Faust: They just happen to be basically biologically derived fungicides. 329 00:28:08,789 --> 00:28:09,980 Jim Faust: And so those can work. 330 00:28:10,490 --> 00:28:15,780 Jim Faust: We have some plant extracts and we have essential oils, which are, again, plant derived compounds 331 00:28:16,039 --> 00:28:18,100 Jim Faust: that can be effective essential oils. 332 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:27,080 Jim Faust: Our challenge has been phytotoxicity, where they can work pretty well, like use things like thyme oil, but they also can be pretty damaging to plant tissue. 333 00:28:27,850 --> 00:28:29,919 Jim Faust: So that's one of the challenges. 334 00:28:30,330 --> 00:28:34,720 Jim Faust: A group of products we call systemic acquired resistance products are SARS. 335 00:28:35,169 --> 00:28:42,960 Jim Faust: And these actually are products that you would apply that then turn on the natural defense mechanisms within the plant. 336 00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:47,440 Jim Faust: And these are tricky to use. 337 00:28:47,970 --> 00:28:57,420 Jim Faust: The thinking is that you don't immediately turn all these defense mechanism genes on immediately, so they can take a little bit of time to work. 338 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,180 Jim Faust: And then there's also a cost. 339 00:29:00,310 --> 00:29:05,880 Jim Faust: Like if a plant is expending energy to turn on these defense mechanism, there's an energy cost to that. 340 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:14,519 Jim Faust: And so that creates a challenge in that if you keep spraying these induced systemic part 341 00:29:14,559 --> 00:29:21,080 Jim Faust: resistance compounds, then the plant has to keep turning on these mechanisms of defense 342 00:29:21,460 --> 00:29:24,559 Jim Faust: and that's taking some of the energy away from the plant. 343 00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:27,240 Jim Faust: So there's a challenge that they can work on. 344 00:29:28,159 --> 00:29:44,720 Jim Faust: For sure. But management is challenging. There's nothing easier than spraying a chemical. And it's just like insects are the same thing. This gets awfully complicated when we go to bio-based products. 345 00:29:45,179 --> 00:29:48,679 Jim Faust: It's not to say they can't work, but it just is a challenge. 346 00:29:52,539 --> 00:29:57,059 Jim Faust: So the last category being the one that we actually end up have worked on the most, 347 00:29:57,260 --> 00:30:02,299 Jim Faust: and that would be using plant nutrients. And so, you know, we've published a lot of work showing 348 00:30:02,919 --> 00:30:09,799 Jim Faust: calcium is a very important plant nutrient that helps the plant be resistant to botrytis infection. 349 00:30:10,620 --> 00:30:16,880 Jim Faust: And so plants aren't very good at accumulating calcium in the tissues, especially in flower 350 00:30:17,140 --> 00:30:17,580 Jim Faust: petal tissue. 351 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,300 Jim Faust: Calcium levels are really, really low. 352 00:30:20,350 --> 00:30:26,120 Jim Faust: Like they can be only 5% of the value of calcium that you would find in the leaf tissue on the 353 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:31,700 Jim Faust: same plant, like a petunia that has, you know, 1%. 354 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:39,000 Jim Faust: calcium in the leaves will only have like 0.05% calcium in the petal. 355 00:30:39,419 --> 00:30:40,320 Jim Faust: So it's really low. 356 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:47,360 Jim Faust: And so sometimes our only solution for that is to actually spray or dip 357 00:30:48,019 --> 00:30:53,840 Jim Faust: susceptible tissues in the calcium solutions in order to get the calcium where we want it to go. 358 00:30:54,250 --> 00:30:58,840 Jim Faust: So calcium moves in the leaves fairly well because leaves bring a lot of water through them. 359 00:30:59,110 --> 00:31:02,980 Jim Faust: The water gets evaporated or transpired and the calcium is left behind. 360 00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:10,280 Jim Faust: But when you have a really rapidly developing organ like a flower, where it goes from a small bud to open flower in a matter of days, 361 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,500 Jim Faust: and that flower petal tissue doesn't have spores that transpire water through them. 362 00:31:15,540 --> 00:31:18,760 Jim Faust: So you're not pulling a lot of water into that flower petal. 363 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:24,140 Jim Faust: As a result, calcium concentrations, calcium's not being pulled into that flower very well. 364 00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:28,740 Jim Faust: And in nature, this doesn't seem to be so much of a problem because in nature, the flowers 365 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:34,280 Jim Faust: are pretty small compared to what we've done in horticultural breeders have bred everything 366 00:31:34,559 --> 00:31:35,059 Jim Faust: to be bigger. 367 00:31:35,780 --> 00:31:50,960 Jim Faust: You know, same thing with things like tomatoes. In nature, tomatoes are really small fruit. And you breed it to be giant and you start to have calcium deficiency issues because you just cannot move enough calcium into that tissue. And so you get blossom end rot. 368 00:31:51,380 --> 00:31:57,399 Jim Faust: And so once you have some necrotic tissue because of this localized calcium deficiency, 369 00:31:58,279 --> 00:32:01,360 Jim Faust: then you give a place for Botrytis to come in and grow. 370 00:32:01,850 --> 00:32:03,480 Jim Faust: And so we have that problem with poinsettias. 371 00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:10,059 Jim Faust: We call it bracted edge burn, and really it's calcium deficiency on the edge of the bract. 372 00:32:10,659 --> 00:32:15,320 Jim Faust: And then you get little necrotic spots, and then the Botrytis comes in and spreads rapidly. 373 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:30,980 Jim Faust: So, yeah, so the lack of calcium is a challenge. But even on nice green tissue, we have found that if we can enhance the calcium concentration in that tissue, it becomes more resistant to botrytis infection. 374 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:32,900 Jim Faust: So what we think is... 375 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,680 Jim Faust: What's primarily happening is, you know, calcium is a vital part of cell walls. 376 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:43,940 Jim Faust: And so as you strengthen those cell walls, what the botrytis is trying to do is send its 377 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:49,980 Jim Faust: mycelia, like its little arms and legs, or its roots kind of down in through the cells 378 00:32:51,039 --> 00:32:54,440 Jim Faust: And it goes through the cell wall and sucks out the nutrients. 379 00:32:55,179 --> 00:32:59,460 Jim Faust: And if you have a stronger cell wall, then the penetration of the fungus is not as good. 380 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:04,139 Jim Faust: So you just don't, even if you get a small lesion, it doesn't grow very well because 381 00:33:04,659 --> 00:33:08,299 Jim Faust: the fungus is just not penetrating that stronger cell wall. 382 00:33:08,940 --> 00:33:17,720 Ping Yu: So basically, to a certain extent that the calcium is actually helping build a thicker cell wall 383 00:33:17,940 --> 00:33:24,540 Ping Yu: to serve as a physical barrier for this pathogen to penetrate. 384 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:33,580 Ping Yu: But are there any other mechanisms that with the calcium that will actually help the disease control? 385 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,400 Ping Yu: Are there any other mechanisms? 386 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:41,679 Ping Yu: that the calcium can serve besides the physical barrier. 387 00:33:42,860 --> 00:33:47,660 Jim Faust: Yeah, and calcium is thought to be a signaling device of plant stress. 388 00:33:48,260 --> 00:33:51,220 Jim Faust: And so, again, helps turn on defense mechanisms. 389 00:33:52,059 --> 00:33:56,760 Jim Faust: So it's not clear which, you know, there's several potential modes of action for calcium. 390 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,820 Jim Faust: It's really not entirely clear which is the most important. 391 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,160 Jim Faust: And it could be multiple things, too. 392 00:34:02,620 --> 00:34:06,300 Jim Faust: But the key is having more calcium in the plant tissue. 393 00:34:06,890 --> 00:34:07,100 Jim Faust: Yeah. 394 00:34:07,940 --> 00:34:15,540 Ping Yu: Which method of the application for the calcium is the most effective for Botrytis control? 395 00:34:16,290 --> 00:34:20,720 Ping Yu: Because you did so many different trials or research on this. 396 00:34:21,139 --> 00:34:28,220 Ping Yu: Are there any way that you find the most effective and more importantly, cost effective? 397 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,379 Jim Faust: Yeah, so it depends on the crop. 398 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:37,580 Jim Faust: Like with cut flowers, we can dip the flowers into a calcium solution and that works really 399 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:37,960 Jim Faust: well. 400 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:42,520 Jim Faust: And probably the majority of roses that you would buy in the store these days have been 401 00:34:42,700 --> 00:34:47,520 Jim Faust: dipped into a calcium solution before they were exported out of South America. 402 00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:50,200 Jim Faust: So dipping works really well. 403 00:34:50,919 --> 00:34:56,460 Jim Faust: And we've tested sprays on roses and they do work, just not as effective. 404 00:34:57,220 --> 00:35:02,460 Jim Faust: With the crops that a U.S. grower would be producing, you really can't dip a tray of petunias. 405 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,760 Jim Faust: Like you can't pick it up and, right, it just doesn't work. 406 00:35:06,300 --> 00:35:07,840 Jim Faust: So sprays are kind of what we have. 407 00:35:08,380 --> 00:35:14,660 Jim Faust: And so what you see growers do is basically do a weekly spray as a preventative application. 408 00:35:15,579 --> 00:35:20,059 Jim Faust: Then this actually started in the 90s when we had bractage burned with poinsettia. 409 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,279 Jim Faust: The solution was just once you start getting color development on poinsettias, you just 410 00:35:24,279 --> 00:35:25,520 Jim Faust: do a weekly spray of calcium. 411 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:31,400 Jim Faust: And we've seen that that works pretty well with a lot of the spring crops that we grow. 412 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:38,359 Jim Faust: And so growers will tank mix calcium products with other sprays so that they're not actually 413 00:35:38,359 --> 00:35:42,339 Jim Faust: doing an additional spray, but they'll be, you know, if you're already spraying a growth 414 00:35:42,599 --> 00:35:49,000 Jim Faust: regulator or a pesticide, you can mix calcium into those spray applications and then try to 415 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,619 Jim Faust: get a weekly application on. 416 00:35:51,300 --> 00:35:57,160 Jim Faust: So the form of calcium that we recommend, probably what we think is the best would be 417 00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:58,140 Jim Faust: calcium chloride. 418 00:35:59,220 --> 00:36:01,260 Jim Faust: You know, you can apply calcium in different forms. 419 00:36:01,799 --> 00:36:03,720 Jim Faust: For example, you do calcium nitrate. 420 00:36:04,380 --> 00:36:10,400 Jim Faust: But we get better control in general with calcium chloride, and it's also quite inexpensive. 421 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:17,140 Jim Faust: We like to get the calcium up to at least 500 parts per million, and if not, 1,000 parts per million. 422 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,279 Jim Faust: If you're doing a weekly application, 500 is... 423 00:36:20,660 --> 00:36:21,600 Jim Faust: you know, probably okay. 424 00:36:22,290 --> 00:36:23,760 Jim Faust: With calcium chloride applications, 425 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:25,960 Jim Faust: weekly preventative applications 426 00:36:26,310 --> 00:36:27,000 Jim Faust: really do make sense 427 00:36:27,170 --> 00:36:27,960 Jim Faust: because it's just not 428 00:36:28,050 --> 00:36:29,180 Jim Faust: very expensive to use. 429 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,540 Jim Faust: And you really want it on 430 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,280 Jim Faust: before the risk of botrytis is high. 431 00:36:34,420 --> 00:36:35,600 Jim Faust: I know some growers that 432 00:36:35,630 --> 00:36:36,640 Jim Faust: when they start 433 00:36:36,559 --> 00:36:40,700 Jim Faust: No weak cloudy weather is coming up and risk of botrytis is going to be high. 434 00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:45,799 Jim Faust: Let us make sure that they have preventative applications on the tissue because it, you 435 00:36:45,799 --> 00:36:49,020 Jim Faust: know, calcium is not mobilized in plants very well. 436 00:36:49,089 --> 00:36:52,400 Jim Faust: So it really is like a surface coverage issue. 437 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:58,599 Jim Faust: So, you know, you need to treat flowers as they're opening up basically to protect them 438 00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:03,059 Jim Faust: well, you know, having sprayed the foliage two weeks before doesn't help you that much. 439 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,200 Jim Faust: So you have to kind of protect the tissue that is most susceptible. 440 00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:14,200 Jim Faust: So that's why just kind of mixing in calcium chloride into a tank mix can work quite well. 441 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,400 Ping Yu: And how many applications do you recommend them doing? 442 00:37:18,450 --> 00:37:23,560 Ping Yu: Because do they start doing, like from the preventative brain perspective, I guess, 443 00:37:23,980 --> 00:37:30,300 Ping Yu: they do the normal scouting for many of the pest and disease that they have for the greenhouse. 444 00:37:30,510 --> 00:37:32,400 Ping Yu: And once they detected any... 445 00:37:32,579 --> 00:37:37,559 Ping Yu: potential symptoms or even before, like you said, they predict the weather is going to change 446 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:42,319 Ping Yu: and that will increase the likelihood of the disease and they'll start application. 447 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:49,520 Ping Yu: And throughout the whole process, for instance, like the poinsettia perspective or other 448 00:37:50,220 --> 00:37:56,539 Ping Yu: or petunia, how many applications do they normally do on an average basis that you would recommend? 449 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:17,099 Jim Faust: Yeah. I mean, I know growers that just spray it every week. I mean, it's just because I did a calculation once and it was like $2 per acre. There's no real cost to the material itself. It's the labor to do it. So if you just mix it in with other products that you're spraying, then that would be the... 450 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:32,040 Jim Faust: You know, very little additional cost. So why not just add that? So again, you always have to be anytime you tank mix something, there are risks involved. So you do some trials internally. But, you know, for the most part, that has seemed to work pretty well. 451 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,680 Jim Faust: If it was me, if it's a dry time of year, 452 00:38:37,559 --> 00:38:38,819 Jim Faust: you don't need to be using it. 453 00:38:39,039 --> 00:38:41,760 Jim Faust: When I think most growers have a bit of a sense 454 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:43,779 Jim Faust: when they're hitting a period 455 00:38:44,020 --> 00:38:46,039 Jim Faust: where they're at moderate to high risk, 456 00:38:46,799 --> 00:38:48,240 Jim Faust: they have a lot of flowers in the greenhouse, 457 00:38:49,140 --> 00:38:51,920 Jim Faust: You know, it's cloudy, wet weather coming up, cool weather. 458 00:38:52,580 --> 00:38:56,440 Jim Faust: You're getting condensation forming on the greenhouse and dripping on the plants at night. 459 00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:01,020 Jim Faust: Those sorts of conditions are when it's ripe for botrytis infection. 460 00:39:01,100 --> 00:39:06,440 Jim Faust: And so you need to be prepared, you know, with your fungicide tools lined up, 461 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,980 Jim Faust: but also calcium as one of the tools in your chest. 462 00:39:12,099 --> 00:39:21,859 Ping Yu: And speaking of the coverage that you mentioned, to make it more effective, you have to cover basically the whole plant at the surface. 463 00:39:21,980 --> 00:39:31,099 Ping Yu: Are there any specific spray or mechanism or machine that... 464 00:39:31,300 --> 00:39:33,720 Ping Yu: will help with the coverage. 465 00:39:34,370 --> 00:39:37,800 Ping Yu: When spraying more, they're just misting with the air blast. 466 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,220 Ping Yu: They just do their traditional spray 467 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,160 Ping Yu: and then hoping they're going to cover the whole plant. 468 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:45,540 Jim Faust: Yeah. 469 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,600 Jim Faust: You know, if you use a high-pressure sprayer that... 470 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,180 Jim Faust: makes very fine particles, 471 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,220 Jim Faust: you're going to get better distribution 472 00:39:53,460 --> 00:39:54,220 Jim Faust: and better coverage. 473 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,040 Jim Faust: So we've even taken like a petunia flower 474 00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,200 Jim Faust: and covered half of it up 475 00:39:59,940 --> 00:40:02,380 Jim Faust: and sprayed half with calcium 476 00:40:03,100 --> 00:40:05,040 Jim Faust: and the other half didn't get calcium 477 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,500 Jim Faust: and then uncover it, 478 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,520 Jim Faust: spray it all with spores. 479 00:40:10,340 --> 00:40:11,940 Jim Faust: And you see that the side of the flower 480 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,000 Jim Faust: that received the calcium spray 481 00:40:14,820 --> 00:40:17,100 Jim Faust: doesn't get botrytis, the other side does. 482 00:40:18,060 --> 00:40:37,180 Jim Faust: So it really is a coverage issue. So your spray equipment, you know, doing a very fine spray that is well distributed, that's turbulent and covers the tissues quite well, is going to be better than like just a real heavy spray that runs off. 483 00:40:37,820 --> 00:40:57,160 Ping Yu: Yeah, because I was assuming that once they spray, especially with this disease and the calcium, you probably want them to apply them so that the chemical or the product would reach the backside of the flower or the leaves as well. 484 00:40:57,300 --> 00:41:02,320 Ping Yu: So basically you wanted to cover the whole thing instead of just the surface or the canopy. 485 00:41:02,740 --> 00:41:09,620 Ping Yu: but also the underside of the leaves, the abaxial leaf, right, so that you can have the whole 486 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,700 Ping Yu: plant covered with calcium to prevent it from getting the 487 00:41:20,900 --> 00:41:26,360 Ping Yu: yeah and so what is your what is the next excitement for your research and career 488 00:41:26,820 --> 00:41:29,520 Jim Faust: Well, we've got several projects going on. 489 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,720 Jim Faust: We're actually doing another pathology project that is kind of unique. 490 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,460 Jim Faust: It's mostly aimed at flowers that are in the aster family. 491 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,119 Jim Faust: There's a disease organism called Itersonilia. 492 00:41:42,780 --> 00:41:48,740 Jim Faust: And it is causing some real problems with the cut flower growers of Gerbera daisy and chrysanthemum. 493 00:41:49,260 --> 00:41:52,720 Jim Faust: It also can infect China aster, sunflowers. 494 00:41:53,620 --> 00:41:57,660 Jim Faust: So, there are small spots on the petals. 495 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:03,480 Jim Faust: that are partly noticeable in the greenhouse, but then you put those flowers into a box and 496 00:42:03,839 --> 00:42:12,020 Jim Faust: ship them and those spots can grow substantially and make the flowers unsellable. So it's an 497 00:42:12,260 --> 00:42:16,280 Jim Faust: interesting organism because there's only ever been like two or three papers ever published on it, 498 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:28,180 Jim Faust: so we don't know very much about it. So we've been trying to understand what's going on. It's 499 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,560 Jim Faust: of fungi that usually don't cause the plant diseases. 500 00:42:28,780 --> 00:42:30,079 Jim Faust: So it also makes it kind of unique. 501 00:42:30,380 --> 00:42:32,359 Jim Faust: So that's one project we're working on. 502 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,859 Jim Faust: We are working with unrooted cutting suppliers. 503 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,980 Jim Faust: And so these are the growers in Mexico and Central America 504 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,280 Jim Faust: that, you know, ship poinsettia cuttings, 505 00:42:42,359 --> 00:42:44,220 Jim Faust: impatiens, petunia cuttings. 506 00:42:44,940 --> 00:42:48,900 Jim Faust: and trying to build a better package to ship the cuttings in. 507 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,640 Jim Faust: So we have post-harvest related issues with cuttings 508 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,360 Jim Faust: in that there's not a lot of temperature control during shipment. 509 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:02,400 Jim Faust: And as a consequence, cutting performance can be sometimes poor. 510 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,500 Jim Faust: You can get too cold, you can get too warm, you can get ethylene damage. 511 00:43:07,020 --> 00:43:18,060 Jim Faust: And so the idea is if we can build a box that actually is more breathable so that gases like ethylene can't accumulate and cause problems, 512 00:43:18,230 --> 00:43:24,920 Jim Faust: because we've done some nice work this past semester showing what concentrations of ethylene really start to cause damage 513 00:43:25,510 --> 00:43:29,840 Jim Faust: and how those concentrations are actually pretty common in commercial shipping boxes. 514 00:43:30,620 --> 00:43:34,400 Jim Faust: And so we're trying to see if we can have a build a better box. 515 00:43:35,090 --> 00:43:36,400 Jim Faust: So that's been an active project. 516 00:43:36,830 --> 00:43:41,900 Jim Faust: We also have a project on post harvest of domestically produced cut flowers. 517 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,580 Jim Faust: So this would be species that, you know, US growers that are like, 518 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:52,880 Jim Faust: especially cut flower growers are producing that are not being produced in the international market. 519 00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:55,200 Jim Faust: So we have been working a lot with 520 00:43:55,599 --> 00:43:57,720 Jim Faust: zinnia and with dahlia, 521 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,359 Jim Faust: trying to improve the post-harvest longevity 522 00:44:01,720 --> 00:44:02,300 Jim Faust: of those crops. 523 00:44:03,119 --> 00:44:06,460 Jim Faust: So dahlia has a really terrible post-harvest. 524 00:44:06,770 --> 00:44:08,260 Jim Faust: Like they can die in two or three days. 525 00:44:09,220 --> 00:44:10,839 Jim Faust: And so that kind of makes it 526 00:44:11,230 --> 00:44:12,599 Jim Faust: only useful for events. 527 00:44:13,300 --> 00:44:15,420 Jim Faust: Like you can't really sell it as a cut flower 528 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,320 Jim Faust: because most of them don't last a week, 529 00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:20,460 Jim Faust: which is kind of what you hope 530 00:44:20,810 --> 00:44:21,800 Jim Faust: a cut flower will last. 531 00:44:23,060 --> 00:44:23,820 Jim Faust: And then zinnias, 532 00:44:24,740 --> 00:44:28,640 Jim Faust: Well, the other thing that happens with the domestic market is most growers are cutting 533 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,140 Jim Faust: and then immediately selling the next day. 534 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,580 Jim Faust: And they're not really storing product for very long. 535 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:42,720 Jim Faust: And what would be ideal is if we know that we could store flowers for even if it's this 536 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:51,740 Jim Faust: two, three, four days, then you could cut multiple days in a week and have more flowers available for your farmer's market on the weekend, for example. 537 00:44:52,380 --> 00:44:57,940 Jim Faust: So storage is really useful as long as you still have good vase life. 538 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:06,299 Jim Faust: And so with zinnia, we're looking at how to store them better because you can't store them at below 50 degrees because you get chilling injury. 539 00:45:07,099 --> 00:45:19,619 Jim Faust: And so what we've learned with zinnia actually has been kind of interesting is that if you actually look on a zinnia flower, if you turn it upside down, you'll notice it actually is green on the underside of the petals. 540 00:45:20,660 --> 00:45:20,680 Jim Faust: Yeah. 541 00:45:20,859 --> 00:45:26,260 Jim Faust: The top side of the petals is yellow or orange or red or something, but the underside is greenish. 542 00:45:27,020 --> 00:45:30,000 Jim Faust: And those petals actually have stomata on the undersides. 543 00:45:30,700 --> 00:45:35,500 Jim Faust: And so I assume the green is chlorophyll and the plants, the petals are actually doing 544 00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:36,400 Jim Faust: some photosynthesis. 545 00:45:37,260 --> 00:45:40,440 Jim Faust: And so what we've been able to show is you can harvest zinnia. 546 00:45:40,990 --> 00:45:49,819 Jim Faust: And if you put them in buckets, like really high density buckets in an office somewhere in the low 60s would be ideal, like an air conditioned office. 547 00:45:50,010 --> 00:45:56,079 Jim Faust: But if you put light on them, like with some cheap LEDs, you can light them. 548 00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:03,460 Jim Faust: The light intensity would be like about 100 foot candles or 20 micromole per square meter per second. 549 00:46:03,810 --> 00:46:04,880 Jim Faust: So it's not real bright. 550 00:46:05,290 --> 00:46:06,040 Jim Faust: So it's very doable. 551 00:46:06,790 --> 00:46:12,700 Jim Faust: But if you put light on those flowers while you're storing them, they actually still have a very good vase life. 552 00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:20,020 Jim Faust: if you store them in the dark, they don't store well at all. Like you really, the vase life goes 553 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:26,480 Jim Faust: quite badly. But if you store them in light, they actually seem to continue to, I'm guessing, 554 00:46:26,839 --> 00:46:32,820 Jim Faust: produce sugars and photosynthesize because they're doing photosynthesis. So they still manage to 555 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:38,700 Jim Faust: produce some food to survive. And so you can have a bucket, like a five-gallon bucket stuffed full of 556 00:46:38,700 --> 00:46:43,400 Jim Faust: flowers and you don't really need the leaves per se because there aren't many leaves on them and you 557 00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:48,040 Jim Faust: can't see the leaves in a bucket anyway it's just the flowers that are exposed to the light but those 558 00:46:48,119 --> 00:46:54,420 Jim Faust: lights those flowers seem to be doing sufficient levels of photosynthesis to you know improve their 559 00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:57,260 Jim Faust: their vase life. So that's been really cool. 560 00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:04,260 Ping Yu: I want to thank James for taking time out of his busy schedule to talk with us today. 561 00:47:04,860 --> 00:47:12,900 Ping Yu: And I have put all those resources and links in the show notes so that you can find more information. 562 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:15,099 Ping Yu: on all the work that he did. 563 00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:21,940 Ping Yu: Besides that, I've also added the additional resources that AFE provides 564 00:47:22,470 --> 00:47:25,740 Ping Yu: through the AFE Thrips and Botrytis Research Library. 565 00:47:26,089 --> 00:47:30,020 Ping Yu: You can find more information on Thrips and Botrytis 566 00:47:30,539 --> 00:47:33,380 Ping Yu: research control and other resources. 567 00:47:34,059 --> 00:47:38,859 Ping Yu: So that I will add all those links through the show notes so you can 568 00:47:39,380 --> 00:47:42,779 Ping Yu: find all the information and resources on this topic. 569 00:47:49,220 --> 00:47:54,099 Ping Yu: This episode in our first season is made possible through an educational grant 570 00:47:54,500 --> 00:47:56,380 Ping Yu: from the American Floral Endowment. 571 00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:00,960 Ping Yu: whose research priorities helped shape the topics that are featured. 572 00:48:01,460 --> 00:48:06,260 Ping Yu: To learn more about AFE and access their research and educational resources, 573 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:11,600 Ping Yu: visit their website at endowment.org. 574 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,400 Ping Yu: Conversation like this only happens when you support the show. 575 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:22,640 Ping Yu: For more information and find ways to support us, please go to bandbpod.com. 576 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:25,400 Ping Yu: bandbpod.com 577 00:48:25,740 --> 00:48:31,200 Ping Yu: If you like what you are hearing, spread the word and share this podcast with the people you love. 578 00:48:31,820 --> 00:48:36,800 Ping Yu: Make sure you hit that subscription button and give a review for the podcast. 579 00:48:37,660 --> 00:48:47,420 Ping Yu: And as always, go check out the show notes to learn more about this topic and other topics we featured on the show at bandbpod.com. 580 00:48:47,799 --> 00:48:51,839 Ping Yu: Thank you for listening. Till the next time, stay healthy and go plants.