1 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:44,460 Ping Yu: Hey, hello everyone, welcome to the Blooms and Beyond podcast that uncovers plant history, culture, and management through the lens of science. I'm your host, Ping. How's everyone doing today? I am doing great because I'm excited to have all this wonderful information or conversations ahead of me with one of my favorite people and my dear friend here, Michael Martin, at the University of Georgia. So in today's episode, I have Dr. Michael Martin to give us an introduction to the green industry and what's behind the saying of the plant. Dr. Michael Martin has years of experience in horticulture, working closely with the green industry and academia. 2 00:00:45,300 --> 00:00:53,040 Ping Yu: So we are going to pick his brain today to get more about the plant and all the stories behind the saying. 3 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:58,720 Ping Yu: I don't want to steal any of the thunder from him today, so let's jump right into it. 4 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,199 Ping Yu: Without further ado, here is my conversation with Dr. Michael Martin. 5 00:01:03,379 --> 00:01:04,440 Ping Yu: I hope you enjoy it. 6 00:01:07,700 --> 00:01:08,500 Ping Yu: Good morning, Michael. 7 00:01:08,940 --> 00:01:09,860 Ping Yu: Welcome to the podcast. 8 00:01:10,420 --> 00:01:22,320 Ping Yu: Before we get into any of those wonderful stories and experience, can you tell us a little bit of who you are and what you do? 9 00:01:24,460 --> 00:01:43,440 Michael Martin: So, I am Michael Martin. I am currently the Science Research and Regulatory Programs Director with American Hort in the Horticultural Research Institute, HRI. I have been working in the horticulture industry almost my entire life. One of my first jobs was when I was five, sticking azalea cuttings, because that was the easiest job I could do. 10 00:01:44,220 --> 00:01:49,660 Michael Martin: And I have really never left the industry. Every job I've had, every... 11 00:01:50,240 --> 00:02:05,439 Michael Martin: experience, internship I've ever done has been directly related to the horticultural industry in some shape, form, or fashion. So it has been a lifelong endeavor for me, and it is something I truly enjoy doing. 12 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:15,620 Ping Yu: Oh, that's great, because I feel like you have some similar trajectory in terms of horticulture, because I did my first horticulture endeavor, it was my gardenia cutting when I was 10 years old. 13 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:20,040 Ping Yu: But I never thought I would end up in horticulture, but here we are. 14 00:02:20,780 --> 00:02:29,000 Ping Yu: Along the conversation that you just mentioned, for those out there who don't know what American Hort is, can you tell us a little bit more of that? 15 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:35,160 Ping Yu: And also a little bit more about, like you mentioned, that you grew up with plants. 16 00:02:35,420 --> 00:02:39,060 Ping Yu: So basically, you're a native kid of horticulture, right? 17 00:02:39,650 --> 00:02:46,320 Ping Yu: Can you tell us a little bit more of those stories or your work experience along the line? 18 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:58,440 Michael Martin: Absolutely. So American Hort is the National Trade Association for Nurseries, Greenhouses, Independent Retailers, Stores, anyone that works with or in ornamental horticulture. 19 00:02:59,100 --> 00:03:04,400 Michael Martin: We have a legislative arm in D.C. We have two lobbyists and a consulting horticulturist there. 20 00:03:05,090 --> 00:03:06,100 Michael Martin: We have... 21 00:03:06,300 --> 00:03:52,560 Michael Martin: staff now all over the country. I'm in Georgia, and so we're here to serve the industry. If there's an issue currently, we're dealing with cotton jassid or two-spotted cotton leafhopper. It's an issue here in the Southeast, and so we go in and we work with federal agencies, the state agencies, our growers in those areas, to help them understand the impacts of pest or disease and anything along those lines. And so we're really here as a service to the industry to help them move forward, help them grow bigger and better. And whatever needs that they may have as an industry, we're there to serve and help meet those needs. It is one of those things we talk about, jobs you don't know exist. 22 00:03:52,950 --> 00:03:56,379 Michael Martin: I never knew this job existed, and it is my dream job. 23 00:03:57,299 --> 00:04:02,620 Michael Martin: I get to work with the people that I grew up with as growers, the people I went to school with, college, my doctorate. 24 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:04,019 Michael Martin: They're now researchers. 25 00:04:04,430 --> 00:04:07,879 Michael Martin: I get to work with them on a daily basis and get paid. 26 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:08,959 Michael Martin: That is my job. 27 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:10,480 Michael Martin: And I'm the matchmaker. 28 00:04:11,140 --> 00:04:18,100 Michael Martin: So with the Horticultural Research Institute, HRI, that is our research foundation, the foundation arm of American Hort. 29 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:28,620 Michael Martin: And so we provide scholarships, research grants, and in the last three or four years, we have started a leadership academy to help build and bridge the next generation... 30 00:04:28,220 --> 00:04:54,640 Michael Martin: of leaders in the industry. And so all of that is industry supported. We don't get any outside money. There's no federal money. There's no state money, really. We do have some state partners that contribute, but for the most part, everything that is brought into HRI is from the industry. And so we're extremely happy that they continue to support our endeavors through HRI. 31 00:04:55,480 --> 00:05:02,780 Michael Martin: But my job is basically, if you as a grower have a question, have an idea, have a problem, and I play matchmaker. 32 00:05:03,030 --> 00:05:11,920 Michael Martin: And I find a researcher that has expertise in that area, and I bring y'all together, and y'all are able to work through that problem. 33 00:05:12,330 --> 00:05:35,780 Michael Martin: And if it's something of a scale that the researcher says, hey, let's put in a grant, they put in a grant and we have almost a year-long process for grant reviews and evaluations, and then we'll award a grant. And so by that way, the industry is helping to fund itself through research to make it a better product, a better place, a better service. So it really is my dream job. 34 00:05:38,660 --> 00:05:46,140 Ping Yu: Yeah, I had the privilege of working with Michael closely with some of the grants for the HRI. 35 00:05:46,390 --> 00:05:51,200 Ping Yu: So I know that you're a horticulture kid, grown up. 36 00:05:52,080 --> 00:06:01,600 Ping Yu: So did you get your bachelor's degree and master's degree all in horticulture, or did you switch fields a little bit along the line? 37 00:06:02,419 --> 00:06:04,020 Michael Martin: I strayed over. 38 00:06:04,740 --> 00:06:05,600 Michael Martin: Strayed isn't the right word. 39 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,780 Michael Martin: I went into ag ed, agricultural education. 40 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:16,180 Michael Martin: But I'll go back and I'll say, in my youth, I had mentors that were phenomenal. 41 00:06:17,180 --> 00:06:20,940 Michael Martin: Bob and Bill Head at Head-Lee Nursery, their sister Janet Lee, their parents. 42 00:06:21,220 --> 00:06:23,220 Michael Martin: They were very formative for me. 43 00:06:23,900 --> 00:06:27,640 Michael Martin: Jeff and Lisa Beasley at Transplant Nursery down in Lavonia, Georgia. 44 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,560 Michael Martin: The Head-Lees are in Seneca, South Carolina, where I grew up. 45 00:06:31,060 --> 00:07:00,460 Michael Martin: My high school ag teacher, he was the one that really showed me that horticulture is not just fun, but a career. That you could actually go out and earn money. You could make your living in that. We were a small high school in Walhalla, South Carolina. We had four greenhouses, and we only sold plants from the first of March through Mother's Day, and it wasn't uncommon for us to bring in $100,000, $125,000 in that time frame. 46 00:07:01,020 --> 00:07:06,440 Michael Martin: But as I moved forward, I went to Clemson University in Clemson, South Carolina for my bachelor's. 47 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,900 Michael Martin: Clemson's a 15-minute drive from where I grew up. 48 00:07:11,250 --> 00:07:26,540 Michael Martin: And because of my ag teacher, because of how influential he was in my life, how important FFA was in my development as a leader, as a high school student, I decided I was going to do a master's in ag ed and I did a master's in adult... 49 00:07:27,100 --> 00:07:33,300 Michael Martin: It's adult outreach and education as well as my teaching certificate for high school ag ed. 50 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:35,760 Michael Martin: And then I did some horticulture minor in there. 51 00:07:36,340 --> 00:07:39,440 Michael Martin: I went and taught for a year, decided it was not for me. 52 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,600 Michael Martin: And Ping knows my wife. 53 00:07:42,610 --> 00:07:44,280 Michael Martin: My wife taught for 10 years. 54 00:07:44,860 --> 00:07:49,880 Michael Martin: My mother-in-law taught for, she's still technically teaching, but close to 35, 40 years. 55 00:07:50,980 --> 00:07:52,460 Michael Martin: My mom taught for 35 years. 56 00:07:52,530 --> 00:07:53,780 Michael Martin: My dad taught for 40 years. 57 00:07:54,460 --> 00:07:55,260 Michael Martin: And so I was like... 58 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:57,160 Ping Yu: Teaching is not your thing. 59 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:58,180 Ping Yu: It's not your thing. 60 00:07:58,340 --> 00:07:59,300 Michael Martin: Teaching is not my thing. 61 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,740 Michael Martin: And I will say this. 62 00:08:01,770 --> 00:08:04,300 Michael Martin: There is nothing wrong with... 63 00:08:04,740 --> 00:08:29,380 Michael Martin: deciding, "Hey, this is not where I want to be. I need to go back and look at something else." So I left the teaching field and I found another area of horticulture that we don't talk about: phytosanitary work. So I worked as a nursery inspector in South Carolina for about five years. It was a fantastic job. They gave me a truck, a gas card and said, go look for bugs, diseases and invasive plants at these nurseries. 64 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,020 Michael Martin: And I was driving a thousand miles a week. It was fantastic. 65 00:08:33,339 --> 00:08:37,900 Michael Martin: We drove all over central South Carolina, visiting nurseries, doing their inspections. 66 00:08:38,919 --> 00:08:42,500 Michael Martin: And I left that and decided I want to start a native plant nursery. 67 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:48,240 Michael Martin: Where I grew up, there's three lakes: Lake Jocassee, Lake Keowee, and Lake Hartwell. 68 00:08:49,019 --> 00:08:59,759 Michael Martin: Lake Keowee in particular, the group that owns the lake, they were requiring if you put in a new dock or did any shoreline restoration, you had to do riparian zone planting. 69 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:51,880 Michael Martin: Yeah. 70 00:09:00,370 --> 00:09:03,980 Michael Martin: And there was nobody in the area that had the plant material. 71 00:09:04,220 --> 00:09:05,040 Michael Martin: We opened a nursery. 72 00:09:05,509 --> 00:09:06,779 Michael Martin: We ran it for 10 years. 73 00:09:07,170 --> 00:09:12,339 Michael Martin: It was a fantastic opportunity, fantastic learning experience for me, for my family. 74 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:17,260 Michael Martin: And then I got a wild hair and said, I'm going to apply to the University of Georgia for a PhD. 75 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:22,180 Michael Martin: And I met this young, through a whole process, I met this young man. 76 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:24,140 Michael Martin: He was a new faculty member. 77 00:09:24,290 --> 00:09:30,899 Michael Martin: He was the nursery extension specialist, Ping's predecessor, Matthew Chappell, who's now back at Virginia Tech. 78 00:09:31,580 --> 00:09:35,940 Michael Martin: I went and, he wasn't even on my interview list, but Paul Thomas... 79 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:51,740 Michael Martin: Yeah, Paul Thomas, who, fantastic researcher, fantastic man, who's unfortunately passed, his office was down the hall from Matthew's, and PT stood up, walked past me, yelled down the hall, "Chappell, get down here." 80 00:09:52,160 --> 00:10:00,779 Michael Martin: And so Matthew comes walking down the hall, PT hands him my resume and said, "Michael's looking to do a doctorate, has strong nursery background." 81 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,920 Michael Martin: We talked for two minutes and that was it. 82 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:05,740 Michael Martin: And a week later, I got an email from Matthew and it was, yeah... 83 00:10:08,380 --> 00:10:11,160 Michael Martin: "If you apply, or accept it, I'll take you as my graduate student." 84 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,600 Michael Martin: And so that brought me to Athens. 85 00:10:13,930 --> 00:10:14,980 Michael Martin: That was 2009. 86 00:10:15,470 --> 00:10:20,820 Michael Martin: And other than a short stint back in Clemson, I've been in Athens almost the entire time. 87 00:10:21,140 --> 00:10:21,420 Ping Yu: Wow. 88 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:32,360 Michael Martin: And in that, working for the university, working for retail companies, wholesale, providing lighting for the greenhouse industry. It has been an interesting trip. 89 00:10:31,370 --> 00:10:31,480 Michael Martin: I've been in Athens. 90 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:42,440 Michael Martin: And now here I'm at American Hort. I get to work with fantastic researchers like you. I get to work with the growers. And it truly is my dream job. 91 00:10:45,560 --> 00:11:35,120 Ping Yu: So that's why I feel like your experience in and out can give us a little bit more of the information that people out there would not know because like you mentioned before, there are tons of career or job opportunities that you would never think are even existing in horticulture because a lot of people talking about horticulture, they're like, "Oh, what do you do? You just grow plants?" No, there's way more than that because we have a whole task force to support the plant and we have retailers, we have garden centers, we have the landscape, we have everything else in between to have a strong thriving industry. 92 00:11:35,170 --> 00:11:37,200 Ping Yu: So it's not just growing plants. 93 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:43,300 Ping Yu: It's everything. There's a lot of things behind the thing. 94 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:52,139 Michael Martin: When you go to buy, let's say, a geranium in the spring, that's the finish line for that plant. 95 00:11:52,319 --> 00:11:52,500 Michael Martin: Yeah. 96 00:11:52,759 --> 00:11:58,019 Michael Martin: Because it's mid-September right now. 97 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:07,639 Michael Martin: The companies that produce the cuttings for the geraniums, they're producing those cuttings for the spring of 2026 right now. 98 00:12:07,940 --> 00:12:08,139 Ping Yu: Yeah. 99 00:12:09,740 --> 00:12:17,200 Michael Martin: And we're three, four months out from 2026, and those cuttings are produced in Central and South America. 100 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,880 Michael Martin: They're brought in. There's an inspection process there. There's transportation. There's all of these things. 101 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:19,579 Michael Martin: Yeah. 102 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:30,960 Michael Martin: Then when it finally gets to the finished nursery or the finished grower, it's going to be there for three to six months, depending on the plant. 103 00:12:31,740 --> 00:12:35,360 Michael Martin: And this is just herbaceous. Woody plant materials, it's even a longer time frame. 104 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:45,660 Michael Martin: And so when you go in and say, "Oh, this is a beautiful plant," it's a six, eight-month journey to get it to you to say, "Yes, this is the plant I want to buy." 105 00:12:46,180 --> 00:12:51,240 Michael Martin: And then there are hundreds, if not thousands of people involved to get it from a tiny cutting... 106 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:56,400 Michael Martin: in another country, sometimes on another continent, to your local store. 107 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:05,080 Michael Martin: And so there are so many hands, so many different things that go into just getting that plant to the finish line. 108 00:13:05,540 --> 00:13:07,240 Michael Martin: And like you say, there are so many jobs. 109 00:13:07,780 --> 00:13:09,120 Michael Martin: Every week, I learn about a new job. 110 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,940 Michael Martin: "I do this for whatever the case may be." 111 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:14,880 Michael Martin: "I'm this kind of plant health specialist." 112 00:13:15,140 --> 00:13:17,700 Michael Martin: "I'm an entomologist that specializes in this." 113 00:13:18,980 --> 00:13:20,320 Michael Martin: It's a wide field. 114 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:21,720 Ping Yu: Yeah, exactly. 115 00:13:21,899 --> 00:13:29,540 Ping Yu: If you're going to, like, a local garden center and you pick this geranium or hydrangea, you're like, "Oh, this is a good plant." 116 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:42,800 Ping Yu: But you never, I would like you to think about and twist it back to the plant behind the plant, and there are, like, where it might be just your local garden center, but before that, where did it come from? 117 00:13:46,060 --> 00:14:17,080 Michael Martin: I'll go back and touch on this. Plant breeders, when you go to buy that plant, five, possibly even 10 years ago, there was a plant breeder that was looking for a combination of genes, traits, whatever the case may be, that they thought would sell. They thought that people would be interested in, or it provides resistance to a disease, a pest, whatever. And so they have bred this plant and there might be millions, billions of dollars tied up in developing a new plant product. 118 00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:17,720 Ping Yu: Yeah. 119 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:29,899 Michael Martin: And then you start with that cuttings, and so the cutting stage. And so when you see that plant, it's not just, "Oh, it was a month-long thing or a quick process." 120 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:37,019 Michael Martin: People's entire lives and careers could be completely wrapped up in development of this new plant. 121 00:14:37,339 --> 00:14:39,560 Ping Yu: Yeah, I'm glad that I really just... 122 00:14:39,740 --> 00:14:42,860 Ping Yu: Like, all of a sudden hit me in my brain right now. 123 00:14:42,860 --> 00:14:48,700 Ping Yu: I was just like, I would say the breeders are like the designers for fashion. 124 00:14:49,160 --> 00:15:01,280 Ping Yu: If you are in a fashion industry, those are the designers who would see the trends that will be giving, that will provide the product that they think will be popular in the future. 125 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:02,180 Michael Martin: They truly are. 126 00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:14,560 Michael Martin: And the interesting thing for me is you go to the store and you're like, "I want a red petunia." The red petunia you bought last year is not the same variety as what's available this year, necessarily. 127 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:14,780 Ping Yu: No. 128 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:20,820 Michael Martin: And every year there is a new, to you as a consumer, it's a red petunia. 129 00:15:21,380 --> 00:15:22,300 Michael Martin: It's the color I want. 130 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,720 Michael Martin: But it's a different variety every year. 131 00:15:26,180 --> 00:15:26,300 Michael Martin: Yeah. 132 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:31,740 Michael Martin: Because as the breeders, they're, again, they're trying to improve the production of it. 133 00:15:31,940 --> 00:15:33,760 Michael Martin: There's something that they're trying to improve on. 134 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:40,860 Michael Martin: And every year they're developing that new variety to help meet the needs of the growers, of the industry itself, and then of the consumers. 135 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:52,680 Ping Yu: Yeah. A lot of times, maybe the consumer in and of itself, they cannot tell the difference or the nuance between the petunia they bought this year to last year, but there is a lot of effort in between just to bring you... 136 00:15:56,970 --> 00:16:00,520 Ping Yu: a little bit of novelty to the new cultivar of the plant. 137 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:15,140 Ping Yu: Okay, so back to the point with your trajectory of horticulture, you grew up with plants and then you have worked in the industry for so many years and you have seen so many plants. 138 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:21,460 Ping Yu: Among all the plants that you have seen or worked with, which one is your favorite and why? 139 00:16:21,540 --> 00:16:21,580 Ping Yu: Okay. 140 00:16:23,940 --> 00:16:38,800 Michael Martin: I love it. It's Tricyrtis. It's the toad lilies. And it goes way back. Park Seed and Wayside, they're in Greenwood, South Carolina. Every June, they would have their grower's days. And when I was young, their grower days were... 141 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,720 Michael Martin: basically they were cleaning out their facility. 142 00:16:42,540 --> 00:16:47,140 Michael Martin: And I didn't, again, I didn't realize this as a child, what they were doing was they were cleaning out their facility. 143 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,060 Michael Martin: So they didn't have to hold stuff through the hot summer. 144 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:49,580 Ping Yu: Yeah. 145 00:16:49,860 --> 00:16:52,500 Michael Martin: And then so that they could start bringing in new material for the fall. 146 00:16:53,340 --> 00:17:02,459 Michael Martin: And so we would drive down from Clemson to Greenwood every June and, and one year they had these little cups, two and a half inch cups of Tricyrtis. 147 00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:06,740 Michael Martin: It was either hirta or formosana 'Stolonifera'. 148 00:17:06,740 --> 00:17:13,799 Michael Martin: I can't remember which variety or which species, but I paid my 25 cents and I brought my cup of Tricyrtis home. 149 00:17:14,439 --> 00:17:19,220 Michael Martin: And that's been at least 30 years, if not closer to 40 years. 150 00:17:19,860 --> 00:17:21,100 Michael Martin: I still have those plants. 151 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:21,699 Ping Yu: Wow. 152 00:17:21,860 --> 00:17:23,939 Michael Martin: They're on the family farm in South Carolina. 153 00:17:24,500 --> 00:17:31,120 Michael Martin: They're still growing. I love them. They're a shade plant. They flower. Most of the species flower in the fall. 154 00:17:26,110 --> 00:17:26,240 Michael Martin: Yeah. 155 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:36,780 Michael Martin: And it's just one of those neat little plants that they're popular in some places. 156 00:17:37,170 --> 00:17:41,580 Michael Martin: Sometimes you ask people, "Have you ever heard of a toad lily or a Tricyrtis?" And, "I've never heard of that." 157 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,720 Michael Martin: But it's just a neat little plant. 158 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:52,640 Ping Yu: Yeah, the Tricyrtis, I think there are like two to three cultivars that are well cultivated, at least in the US or North America. 159 00:17:53,300 --> 00:17:55,720 Ping Yu: Hirta and formosana, those... 160 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:01,300 Ping Yu: Hirta is native to Japan and then formosana is native to China and Taiwan. 161 00:18:01,820 --> 00:18:05,660 Ping Yu: So those are little tiny orchid-like plants. 162 00:18:05,910 --> 00:18:15,540 Ping Yu: So in, at least in Asian culture, at least with my international background, in Asian culture, I guess it's same to other cultures as well. 163 00:18:15,870 --> 00:18:26,340 Ping Yu: A lot of plants, people have their preferences to one plant, not just because of the appearance of the plant, but also because of the history and culture... 164 00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:28,440 Ping Yu: that they represent. 165 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:37,940 Ping Yu: For the toad lily, at least in Asian culture, they are symbolized with good fortune, prosperity, elegance, and long life. 166 00:18:38,060 --> 00:18:39,300 Michael Martin: I'll give you another great example. 167 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:47,760 Michael Martin: In my family, we have a Philadelphus, a mock orange. I think it's Philadelphus odorata, the name of it. 168 00:18:49,660 --> 00:18:54,880 Michael Martin: My mother has a cutting that she took from my grandmother's plant in Greenville, South Carolina. 169 00:18:56,180 --> 00:19:01,400 Michael Martin: That plant came from my great-grandmother, and it came from her grandmother. 170 00:19:01,980 --> 00:19:08,720 Michael Martin: And so this plant, through cuttings, through the whole process, has been in our family for four generations. 171 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:19,060 Michael Martin: We've recently moved in the last three years, and so as soon as I'm happy with everything, I'm going to get cuttings from my mother's plant. 172 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:39,280 Michael Martin: And this plant, it's a native plant here in the Southeast, and one of my ancestors thought it was pretty, and so they moved it close to their homestead, and... 173 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:48,660 Michael Martin: through the generations, it has, right now I can see it in my head, it is on the bank next to my grandparents' homestead. This plant, through its lineage, at least for a hundred years, has been in our family. And so, like you talked, there's, I like the history of plants just as much as I do the plants themselves. 174 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:49,400 Ping Yu: Yeah. 175 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,760 Michael Martin: Another great plant is Shortia galacifolia, the Oconee bells. 176 00:19:54,400 --> 00:20:04,620 Michael Martin: If you want to talk about just a neat plant, it has a very limited distribution in the northern part of South Carolina, but it was lost in the historic record for 100 years. 177 00:20:05,220 --> 00:20:05,480 Michael Martin: Wow. 178 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:12,760 Michael Martin: When the great botanist came over from England, I believe it was Asa Gray, it was in his plant pressings that were sent back to France. 179 00:20:13,620 --> 00:20:15,140 Michael Martin: They never found it again. 180 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,140 Michael Martin: That was the only record, was that pressed plant that went back to Europe. 181 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:25,220 Michael Martin: And a hundred years later, a child was out playing in the woods and brought back flowers. 182 00:20:25,940 --> 00:20:28,559 Michael Martin: And they realized, "Oh, this is the lost plant." 183 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,580 Michael Martin: And so it's that kind of stuff that it's part of our history. 184 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,560 Michael Martin: It's part of not just who we are, but who the plant is. 185 00:20:36,260 --> 00:20:49,160 Michael Martin: And when you understand that history, like you said, it brings a connection to the plants that it just builds that strength and connection that we have with nature, with our plants, with everything. 186 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,580 Ping Yu: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 187 00:20:55,020 --> 00:20:58,880 Ping Yu: Can you tell us a little bit, like, because again we talked about a little bit about each part... 188 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:15,779 Ping Yu: within horticulture in general, but can you draw us a big picture of horticulture in the U.S.? What specifically, ornamental horticulture in the U.S., what is the industry like and what is the status? 189 00:21:16,019 --> 00:21:22,760 Ping Yu: And then we can talk more about the changes because I have viewed the changes for... 190 00:21:25,259 --> 00:21:28,039 Ping Yu: It's been eight years since I moved to the U.S. 191 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,720 Ping Yu: And I have seen a lot of changes just in the industry in and of itself. 192 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:38,000 Ping Yu: So can you first draw us a picture of the status of the ornamental horticulture in the U.S.... 193 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,679 Ping Yu: and then we can talk more about the changes that happened over the past year... 194 00:21:41,920 --> 00:22:19,100 Michael Martin: maybe a decade. So right now the status is, I would say it's good. Unlike most industries, during the COVID lockdowns and even post-COVID years, the ornamental industry did phenomenally well for the most part. People, they were home, they couldn't go anywhere, and it's amazing the number of people that discovered either indoor gardening, gardening in general. And to that degree, there are some facilities, some nurseries that the vast majority of their business is still curbside. 195 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,400 Michael Martin: And so that's one of the trends that I have seen more. 196 00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:27,160 Michael Martin: And again, it's due to COVID and the effects of the lockdown. 197 00:22:28,660 --> 00:22:39,480 Michael Martin: Everything pushed online. And so these people would place their orders for plant material, and it was, "Okay, you're going to pick your plants up on this day at this time." They would put them... 198 00:22:40,260 --> 00:22:57,280 Michael Martin: in a wagon, put them by the curb. The people would come out, get them. They would wave. There was no real connection or interaction. And like I said, there's some nurseries, some facilities, that is our primary sales methodology, is that curbside pickup. 199 00:22:57,940 --> 00:23:03,860 Michael Martin: And it's both good and bad because it limits people's interaction with the plants. 200 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:09,820 Michael Martin: But when you go to the greenhouse, you go to the nursery, that's when you see the neat new stuff. 201 00:23:10,820 --> 00:23:17,200 Michael Martin: And stuff that they may not have on the webpage yet, or they may only have 8 or 10, and it's not worth the effort. 202 00:23:18,020 --> 00:23:20,420 Michael Martin: And that has been one of the bigger changes. 203 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:29,700 Michael Martin: But there's always weather impacts, whether it be drought, too much rain, and that's always funny for me to say is... 204 00:23:29,720 --> 00:24:17,580 Michael Martin: We are dependent on the rain. And if you get too much, it's a problem. And if you don't get enough, it's a problem. So you have to be in that happy, just kind of Goldilocks zone. And just some of the economic reports that we see and get in every quarter from USDA, from some of our economists and other industry partners, it, by region, I would say everybody is, it's good this year. It's not great, it's not terrible, it's good. Everybody is fairly happy. Here in the Southeast, we're starting to get a little bit of drought and so that's a concern going into the fall, the fall being the best time of year to plant plants. But everybody wants to plant in spring. You do what you can. But I would say overall, 2025 has been a good year. 205 00:24:18,210 --> 00:24:18,380 Ping Yu: Yeah. 206 00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:20,700 Michael Martin: And there's... 207 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:21,380 Michael Martin: Go ahead. 208 00:24:21,460 --> 00:24:28,200 Ping Yu: In terms of the U.S. horticulture, and now we're talking, there's a term, it's called American-made. 209 00:24:28,860 --> 00:24:47,320 Ping Yu: So in terms of the plant and horticulture in general, do you know, like, how much, and ratio, how much of those plants that we're normally seeing in our daily life within the industry are American-made and how many of those are imported? 210 00:24:47,330 --> 00:24:57,220 Ping Yu: Because I know there are certain plants and products that we just don't have the climate or environment, or even the labor force to produce. 211 00:24:57,929 --> 00:25:04,360 Ping Yu: So it'll be easier or cheaper for us to import from other countries and other regions instead of for us to produce them. 212 00:25:04,690 --> 00:25:15,580 Ping Yu: So do you have the kind of, like, a rough number to draw the picture of the American-made versus the non-American- made plants in general? 213 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:27,320 Michael Martin: I can't give an exact number, but I will say the majority of your trees and woody shrubs are going to be sole source produced in the United States. 214 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:35,220 Michael Martin: You may have the cuttings that come in for a new variety, and that's more intellectual property rights type work than anything. 215 00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:41,980 Michael Martin: But you may have those initial starts, and then they'll do a cutting block or a propagation block and build from there. 216 00:25:43,220 --> 00:25:53,640 Michael Martin: On your herbaceous stuff, particularly your annuals, like you said, most of those starts, and again, it's the cuttings most predominantly, that are coming in from Central and South America. 217 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,180 Michael Martin: And that's more of a plant physiology issue than anything. 218 00:25:58,060 --> 00:26:11,460 Michael Martin: You have these major producers, and because of the day length, the temperature, all these things, like you said, that we don't have consistent here in the United States, they're able to produce plant material year-round. 219 00:26:12,300 --> 00:26:27,400 Michael Martin: Believe it or not, the poinsettias for this Thanksgiving and this Christmas, they're predominantly produced in Central and South America, the cuttings are, because they can grow them during the summer and then ship them up here for the fall to finish out. 220 00:26:28,180 --> 00:26:36,700 Michael Martin: And then as soon as those poinsettias come out or whatever the fall crop is, it may even be, not mums, but there are some crops that... 221 00:26:37,139 --> 00:26:45,559 Michael Martin: And they'll switch to the spring crops because, again, the plants need a certain amount of temperature, a certain amount of day length to grow properly. 222 00:26:46,200 --> 00:27:01,220 Michael Martin: And so we can either spend a lot of money doing artificial lighting to accomplish that, or you can build facilities in regions and locations where those physiological parameters are met. 223 00:27:01,740 --> 00:27:05,559 Michael Martin: And so a lot of the herbaceous material is produced offshore. 224 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,940 Michael Martin: But it's just the cuttings. 225 00:27:09,670 --> 00:27:12,980 Michael Martin: It will be brought into the United States and then be finished in the United States. 226 00:27:13,580 --> 00:27:14,380 Ping Yu: Yeah, yeah. 227 00:27:14,690 --> 00:27:22,760 Ping Yu: And I think one of the things about the plant in the South is because it also depends on where the plant is native to. 228 00:27:23,200 --> 00:28:12,420 Ping Yu: Because if they are native to, like for instance, the poinsettia, you mentioned that South America would produce them more. That's just because they are, poinsettia is native to Mexico. So they are native to that specific environment. So that's why they can produce them with higher quality easier. And so if we were to produce those type of plants, we have to create the environment that they will survive and so that might cause some issues for us here in the United States to do that for the plants. And some of those, we just don't have that, even with the creation of the artificial environment, it will add extra input and it doesn't worth it in terms of bringing the benefits of growing there versus importing from somewhere else. 229 00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:42,179 Michael Martin: And it becomes cost prohibitive, if we're honest about it. Because like you say, whether it be providing artificial light, heat, whatever the case may be, it adds input. And that is one thing that if you can make use of the natural conditions, you can make use of the natural conditions. 230 00:28:31,820 --> 00:28:48,100 Michael Martin: So it's better for everybody. It's better for the cost. It's better for the environment because we're not having to produce electricity. Yes, we are having to ship, but it is not, you can put a thousand cuttings in a regular cardboard box. 231 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,560 Michael Martin: It's very cost-effective, and that's the big thing. 232 00:28:53,280 --> 00:29:03,420 Michael Martin: And as we talk about jobs, there are entire people, their entire jobs are to look at these plants as they're coming in to make sure that there's no pests or diseases, anything like that. 233 00:29:03,820 --> 00:29:09,020 Michael Martin: But I will say the growers pride themselves on producing the cleanest, highest quality plant material possible. 234 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:10,120 Ping Yu: Yeah. 235 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:17,800 Ping Yu: And I love our industry just because they are, a lot of the people, not just the plant. 236 00:29:17,860 --> 00:29:22,480 Ping Yu: The people within the industry are so nice and they are so hardworking. 237 00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:23,340 Michael Martin: It really is. 238 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,840 Michael Martin: The nursery greenhouse industry, the people, a lot of the growers, they're family. 239 00:29:29,620 --> 00:29:39,880 Michael Martin: You may have three, four, some even five generations that have gone into building their company, and they take pride in it. 240 00:29:40,140 --> 00:29:42,580 Michael Martin: And we're talking a little bit about plant quality. 241 00:29:43,419 --> 00:29:51,559 Michael Martin: In the last 10 to 20 years, quality was one of those things, especially we'll go 20 years ago or so, the late 90s, early 2000s. 242 00:29:52,539 --> 00:29:54,660 Michael Martin: Plant quality was not always assured. 243 00:29:55,320 --> 00:30:11,260 Michael Martin: And it would be written into the contracts that the plants had to be certain height, certain quality, certain whatever. And now that's just the norm. That's the expectation that every plant that leaves your facility is going to be of the absolute highest caliber. 244 00:29:59,440 --> 00:29:59,580 Michael Martin: Right. 245 00:30:11,620 --> 00:30:26,799 Michael Martin: And it's, I was in a meeting with several growers and that was one of the things that they said, "We pride ourselves on having high quality plants," and that has now become the industry norm, industry standard, rather than the exception. 246 00:30:27,419 --> 00:30:27,700 Ping Yu: Yeah. 247 00:30:28,059 --> 00:30:28,200 Ping Yu: Yeah. 248 00:30:28,860 --> 00:30:29,740 Michael Martin: That high quality. 249 00:30:30,030 --> 00:30:35,160 Michael Martin: And that's, I'll say that's one of the things that has really, really changed in the industry is that. 250 00:30:36,540 --> 00:30:37,780 Michael Martin: It is the highest quality. 251 00:30:39,790 --> 00:30:41,920 Michael Martin: The plants are phenomenal, everything. 252 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,480 Michael Martin: And again, it's just that change in industry, change in mindset. 253 00:30:48,980 --> 00:30:51,780 Ping Yu: So I'm glad that you mentioned that already. 254 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,700 Ping Yu: Those are some of the changes that you have observed. 255 00:30:54,870 --> 00:31:00,520 Ping Yu: But besides that, are there any changes that you have observed in the past, I would say, years? 256 00:31:01,280 --> 00:32:03,640 Ping Yu: In our industry, because one of the things that I have observed is that a lot of, like, the trade shows, they used to be very big and now we were at a phase where we don't see a whole lot of the trade shows anymore. Or even with the current existing trade shows, they become smaller. American Hort is still the largest trade show in the United States, where, besides MANTS, I don't know how, maybe those two are similar. But for the states or regional, there used to be, like, at least each state used to have a trade show that hosted every year and to display all those new varieties and new products that the state offers, but right now it's not that quite true. So can you tell us a little bit about that or any other changes that you have observed for the past 10, or maybe more than 10 years? 257 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:30,300 Michael Martin: I'll go way back. When I first got started in horticulture, named varieties were the rarity. And now it's, that's the expectation that every variety has, it's a known variety, a named variety. And again, when I first started, that was very uncommon. It was just a red petunia, a red geranium. And so now that, and it, part of it goes back to the marketing process. 258 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:45,120 Michael Martin: When you open up a home and garden magazine, there's a full-page spread of whatever the latest, greatest tree, shrub, plant is, so that when you go to the garden center, "I saw a picture of this, this is what I want." 259 00:32:45,860 --> 00:32:49,900 Michael Martin: And it's been interesting to see how that has changed the market demand. 260 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:58,080 Michael Martin: And to your point about the trade shows, I think the trade shows go back to the cost. 261 00:32:58,820 --> 00:33:02,700 Michael Martin: A lot of the growers, they were at the state shows, the regional shows. 262 00:33:03,419 --> 00:33:05,260 Michael Martin: They may have done eight or 10 a year. 263 00:33:06,039 --> 00:33:20,580 Michael Martin: And so a lot of the growers that have, the last couple of years, that was one of their biggest things, was we have become more selective in the shows that we exhibit at, more selective in the shows we attend because it is becoming cost prohibitive. 264 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:21,520 Michael Martin: They're not... 265 00:33:25,460 --> 00:33:36,480 Ping Yu: As a grower yourself and a researcher yourself, and within American Hort, what are the main challenges that you would say that our industry is facing now? 266 00:33:36,780 --> 00:33:38,360 Ping Yu: And are there any, like, solutions? 267 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:46,540 Ping Yu: Because I know American Hort and HRI and you guys are working closely with the industry to come up with ideas to help them. 268 00:33:46,820 --> 00:33:53,320 Ping Yu: Can you explain some of those challenges and some of the solutions that you guys are in the process of developing? 269 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:59,420 Michael Martin: So labor is probably the biggest issue that I hear repeatedly. 270 00:34:00,150 --> 00:34:09,600 Michael Martin: And our legislative team, they're working with H-2B, H-2A, and trying to get more workers that way. 271 00:34:10,399 --> 00:34:12,440 Michael Martin: There is a move towards more automation. 272 00:34:13,419 --> 00:34:21,839 Michael Martin: And that's not necessarily a bad thing because some of the automation jobs are the jobs where you have more injury. 273 00:34:22,809 --> 00:34:24,940 Michael Martin: And there's been a lot of moves towards automation. 274 00:34:25,869 --> 00:34:30,579 Michael Martin: And that's one of the big issues, or the biggest issue in my opinion, is labor. 275 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:38,860 Michael Martin: Other issues, and I will tell any younger person or older person that's looking for a career change, phytosanitary. 276 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:40,639 Michael Martin: So that's plant health. 277 00:34:40,899 --> 00:34:42,220 Michael Martin: That's disease, insects. 278 00:34:42,399 --> 00:34:51,240 Michael Martin: If you want job stability, if you want a scary day every day, go into phytosanitary work, whether it be at a state level, a federal level. 279 00:34:51,620 --> 00:35:01,080 Michael Martin: A lot of the larger operations now have their own integrated pest management, phytosanitary person that does all of their pest and disease diagnostics. 280 00:35:02,260 --> 00:35:06,400 Michael Martin: That's job security because there is something new every day, every week. 281 00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:09,560 Michael Martin: And sometimes it is just a minor issue. 282 00:35:10,380 --> 00:35:21,960 Michael Martin: Sometimes it is catastrophic. And so part of our job is, if something looks like it's going to have potential to be catastrophic, is to work with the growers, to work with the states. 283 00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:33,680 Michael Martin: There's a group called the National Plant Board, and it is all plant health regulatory officers, which are at a state level, and then there's the State Plant Health Directors. 284 00:35:33,860 --> 00:35:39,100 Michael Martin: They're called SPHDs. I can't remember what it is, but they're federal officers that work in each state. 285 00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:42,680 Michael Martin: And so we work with National Plant Board, which is a gathering of them. 286 00:35:43,710 --> 00:35:47,980 Michael Martin: USDA has a division called Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, APHIS. 287 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,540 Michael Martin: They have a subdivision called Plant Protection and Quarantine, PPQ. 288 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,620 Michael Martin: I meet with PPQ officers almost every week. 289 00:35:57,020 --> 00:36:00,860 Michael Martin: And we discuss what is on the horizon for pests and disease. 290 00:36:01,010 --> 00:36:02,420 Michael Martin: What are we having problems with now? 291 00:36:02,890 --> 00:36:06,800 Michael Martin: Earlier, I mentioned cotton jassid or two-spotted cotton leafhopper. 292 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,080 Michael Martin: That's a current issue in the Southeast. 293 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:15,200 Michael Martin: And so we work with everybody to try to address these issues for the best outcome. 294 00:36:15,940 --> 00:36:22,480 Michael Martin: And whether that outcome be quarantines, best management practices for spray, scouting, treatments, whatever. 295 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:30,360 Michael Martin: We work with everyone to have the best outcome, not just for our growers, but for any other affected group. 296 00:36:26,830 --> 00:36:26,980 Michael Martin: We're going to talk about what we're going to do. 297 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,120 Michael Martin: So with cotton jassid, it's a severe pest of cotton. 298 00:36:33,180 --> 00:36:37,480 Michael Martin: So we're working with the National Cotton Council and some of their affiliated groups. 299 00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:41,680 Michael Martin: We're working with, like I said, PPQ, APHIS... 300 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:55,800 Michael Martin: the states to try to help figure out how we can scout for this pest, how we can control it, and how we can prevent it from being a major issue, not only to cotton, but to okra production and to ornamental production. 301 00:36:56,100 --> 00:37:03,740 Michael Martin: There is a lot of cooperation, and there's a lot of behind-the-scenes work that even our growers don't necessarily see. 302 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:05,900 Ping Yu: Yeah, so... 303 00:37:06,140 --> 00:37:41,420 Ping Yu: So basically for the, I'm glad you mentioned the collaborations and all those things that even our growers may not see. But as a researcher, as people who are working from a land-grant institution, do you think, like, how do you, what do you think the researchers like me, people who work for the industry and the land-grant institution, how can we better help with the green industry in general in collaboration with the industry and just to meet the requirements or needs for the growers? 304 00:37:44,140 --> 00:37:50,220 Michael Martin: My best suggestion, if you're a new faculty member, a new researcher, call. 305 00:37:50,980 --> 00:37:53,960 Michael Martin: Call the grower and say, "Hey, can I come and meet you?" 306 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,220 Michael Martin: "Can I come and tour your facility?" 307 00:37:55,980 --> 00:37:57,520 Michael Martin: They would love to have you come out. 308 00:37:58,020 --> 00:37:59,460 Michael Martin: I don't care where you're at. 309 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:16,800 Michael Martin: You have to form those relationships with the growers. And if, and Ping, I've worked with you for a while now, the growers know that you genuinely care about them, that you have an interest in their community... 310 00:38:16,820 --> 00:38:42,380 Michael Martin: world, in their work, and in their lives. And if you can show somebody with sincerity that I have a genuine interest in the well-being of everything, that opens up doors that just calling or emailing is not going to open up. They want to know who you are. They want to see your face. And when you go out and see them, they're going to tell you stuff that they may not tell you on the phone or over email. 311 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:49,220 Michael Martin: As you're walking through the rows of their greenhouse or their nursery, "Oh, yeah, by the way, I've seen this." 312 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:54,260 Michael Martin: "And we've changed our production method, and now it's 20% faster, 20% better." 313 00:38:54,620 --> 00:39:04,480 Michael Martin: That's an anecdotal comment. You as a researcher, you say, "Hey, can I take this method and do some research on it to see if we can improve the entire industry?" 314 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:16,300 Michael Martin: And I would say 99 times out of 100, they're like, "Absolutely." And then you as a researcher, you go back to them and say, "I'd like to use your facility as one of my research sites." 315 00:39:17,780 --> 00:39:29,520 Michael Martin: They love that. They want to be involved. They want to see how their tax money, how their donations are used to better their industry, to better their businesses, their families, everything. 316 00:39:30,170 --> 00:39:39,460 Michael Martin: And so that would be my biggest and best suggestion is get to know the growers in your state, in your region, and make yourself available. 317 00:39:39,900 --> 00:39:42,460 Michael Martin: They want to see you. They want to know who you are. 318 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:44,920 Michael Martin: And I cannot overemphasize that. 319 00:39:45,420 --> 00:39:49,280 Michael Martin: Make yourself available to them for whatever they need. 320 00:39:49,579 --> 00:39:52,339 Ping Yu: Yeah, I can't agree with you more on that. 321 00:39:52,510 --> 00:39:57,760 Ping Yu: As an extension specialist myself, I, and I enjoy that. 322 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:05,460 Ping Yu: I agree with you that at least for extension ornamental specialists like me, we need to go out there and talk to them. 323 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,400 Ping Yu: It's nothing comparable to just a... 324 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:12,980 Ping Yu: cold email or a phone call because they can't see you. 325 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:18,000 Ping Yu: They can't get to know who you are by just text. 326 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:20,619 Michael Martin: Exactly. 327 00:40:21,130 --> 00:40:22,839 Michael Martin: And I'll take it to the next step. 328 00:40:22,839 --> 00:40:30,740 Michael Martin: If you're coming into the industry, if you're fresh out of college or high school or whatever, go work. 329 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:40,680 Michael Martin: If someone tells you, "Hey, I'm going to show you how to do this type of grafting," it doesn't matter if you learned that in a lab at college. 330 00:40:41,340 --> 00:40:43,900 Michael Martin: Let them show you because they're going to do stuff differently. 331 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:50,500 Michael Martin: They're going to do, you're going to learn these little tips and tricks of the trade that you may not have learned in class. 332 00:40:51,340 --> 00:41:07,240 Michael Martin: And so horticulture is, and agriculture in general, is a very unique career because you can come in with absolutely no experience and in a year or two be fairly proficient in what you do. 333 00:41:07,860 --> 00:41:20,680 Michael Martin: And so that's my thing. If somebody's going to teach you something, be willing, open yourself up to learn that because they may have a lifetime of experience that they're trying to share with you. 334 00:41:21,500 --> 00:41:28,820 Michael Martin: Something else I would recommend is, again, join some of these associations: American Hort, IPPS. 335 00:41:29,820 --> 00:41:32,980 Michael Martin: If you have a state association, join them. 336 00:41:33,580 --> 00:41:34,940 Michael Martin: Get out and meet the growers. 337 00:41:35,300 --> 00:41:37,200 Michael Martin: Meet the people in the industry. 338 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:38,440 Michael Martin: They love young people. 339 00:41:38,460 --> 00:41:40,160 Michael Martin: See more young people involved. 340 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:46,000 Michael Martin: And there's this expectation that, you know, I... 341 00:41:46,420 --> 00:42:02,520 Michael Martin: When people come in from outside the industry, they're like, "I need help with this." Go talk with your neighbors. And I can't get people from outside the industry to understand, most of the other, what would you, what would be your competitors in another industry? 342 00:42:03,460 --> 00:42:08,080 Michael Martin: They are your competitors, but they're happy to help you because your success is their success. 343 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:38,020 Michael Martin: And there's so much of that. "I'm happy to teach you. I'm happy to share almost everything, not everything, with you." And they want to see your business be successful. They want to see you be successful. And in some of the other industries I've worked with and dealt with, that's not the case. Your competition from day one. And horticulture and agriculture in general, it is a, I hate to say, a family dynamic, but that's what it is. They want to see you succeed. 344 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:51,380 Ping Yu: So you briefly mentioned some of those potential job or career opportunities for any young folks out there who may not have... 345 00:42:51,040 --> 00:43:04,800 Ping Yu: thought about getting into horticulture. Can you elaborate or give us some examples of potential job opportunities for them to explore the potential horticulture career? 346 00:43:04,900 --> 00:43:05,040 Ping Yu: Yeah. 347 00:43:07,319 --> 00:43:10,920 Michael Martin: So you can get jobs in anything. 348 00:43:12,839 --> 00:43:19,539 Michael Martin: I know that's a broad generalization thing, but there are people that their job is entirely sales. 349 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:30,400 Michael Martin: They may never see a plant, but they go to the nurseries, the greenhouses, the retailers for their company, and they're selling things. 350 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:35,220 Michael Martin: "This is this year's cutting line, this year's propagation line, what can I interest you in?" 351 00:43:35,740 --> 00:43:57,160 Michael Martin: They may never see a plant, but they're in that and they have to know them. So if you want to do sales, that's an opportunity. If you, I'll stick with the sales, there's so many inputs. Somebody has to produce the containers. Somebody has to produce the substrates, the fertilizers. My favorite are the tags and labels. 352 00:43:57,940 --> 00:43:59,339 Michael Martin: You want to talk about change? 353 00:43:59,700 --> 00:44:01,980 Michael Martin: You might can see them over my shoulder. 354 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,619 Michael Martin: I've got some NFC tags. 355 00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:13,380 Michael Martin: So you can put all the data in that and you just walk by with your phone and scan it and it can give you all the production data for that plant. 356 00:44:13,820 --> 00:44:18,820 Michael Martin: You put that on a tag, and when your customers come in and scan it, they get all that information. 357 00:44:18,930 --> 00:44:22,680 Michael Martin: And it's not just, "This is the plant," and this is, it is everything. 358 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:33,120 Michael Martin: Like I said, plant breeders, engineers for facilities. If you want a job in horticulture, there will be a place for you. 359 00:44:33,700 --> 00:44:40,500 Michael Martin: If you want to just learn how to grow plants, most facilities, they will start you off as a... 360 00:44:41,240 --> 00:45:00,460 Michael Martin: depending on the operation, they call it an area grower or a section grower, and you'll have maybe an acre of plants. And then there'll be a grower above you who you will answer to. They'll have 10, 20, 40 acres. And then there'll be the head grower, and they're over the entire facility. 361 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,660 Michael Martin: And so you have all this going on. 362 00:45:04,420 --> 00:45:11,220 Michael Martin: And so, again, I can't overemphasize, if you come in and are willing to learn, if you want to learn, there's opportunities for you. 363 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:21,740 Ping Yu: Yeah, because the reason why I'm asking you this is also traced back to one of the observations that I have witnessed for the past couple of years. 364 00:45:22,350 --> 00:45:25,700 Ping Yu: In horticulture, in general, we have... 365 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:43,020 Ping Yu: The majority of those owners or people are, I don't know if they're still like the baby boomers, but a lot of older folks who are still in the active mode of production and owning their business. 366 00:45:43,940 --> 00:45:58,340 Ping Yu: But as much as they love plant production and this industry in general, they are going to face the fact that they have to sit down a little bit. 367 00:45:58,720 --> 00:46:14,360 Ping Yu: And one of the trends that I have seen is that a lot of, like, younger folks who are the next generation, the moment that some of their, maybe their dad will ask them, "Hey, do you want to take over the business?" A lot of times they will say no. 368 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:20,980 Ping Yu: The moment they got the business, they're going to sell it to somebody else and take the money and go away, do something else. 369 00:46:21,620 --> 00:46:29,180 Ping Yu: So can you give us a little bit more reasons to help them to stay in this industry? 370 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:35,840 Ping Yu: Because like you mentioned, a lot of those nurseries are family-owned for generations after generations. 371 00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:48,460 Ping Yu: And I would love to have that legendary family-owned legacy carry over just so that we can have a diverse business mode in our industry. 372 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,140 Michael Martin: It's an interesting point that you bring up. 373 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,820 Michael Martin: We do have a lot of owners that are aging out. 374 00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:02,260 Michael Martin: And there's traditional transfers, and then I think it's non-traditional transfers. 375 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:08,480 Michael Martin: American Hort, we have a group that they've got the steps laid out. 376 00:47:08,670 --> 00:47:10,100 Michael Martin: They can walk you through the process. 377 00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:11,620 Ping Yu: Of succession planning? 378 00:47:13,220 --> 00:47:13,600 Michael Martin: Exactly. 379 00:47:14,350 --> 00:47:15,980 Michael Martin: They will help you with a transition plan. 380 00:47:16,510 --> 00:47:20,740 Michael Martin: And so the traditional is it's going from one generation of the family to the next. 381 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,780 Michael Martin: Those are, I won't say easy, but they're easier. 382 00:47:24,839 --> 00:47:27,080 Michael Martin: It's a fairly straightforward process. On the non-traditionals, what that is, as you said... 383 00:47:30,940 --> 00:47:49,400 Michael Martin: you have an operation where the next generation doesn't necessarily want to take over, and so the owners will offer it to the company leadership that is not family, they'll offer it to somebody, and there's an entire process that they go through. 384 00:47:50,660 --> 00:47:53,520 Michael Martin: Very rarely is it a direct takeover. 385 00:47:54,140 --> 00:47:55,640 Michael Martin: Usually it's kind of a gradual thing. 386 00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,900 Michael Martin: It may be a 10-year plan or whatever plan. 387 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:12,100 Michael Martin: Where the leadership or the new owners slowly take over, slowly learn more of that backroom, behind-the- scenes business that they may not have necessarily known was going on. 388 00:48:12,700 --> 00:48:15,660 Michael Martin: Just the day-to-day operations that the family would handle. 389 00:48:15,940 --> 00:48:18,700 Michael Martin: And so it is a very... 390 00:48:18,620 --> 00:48:20,080 Michael Martin: It's an interesting process. 391 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:24,060 Michael Martin: We do have a couple of operations that are currently doing traditionals. 392 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:26,340 Michael Martin: There's one or two doing non-traditionals. 393 00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:37,620 Michael Martin: But if you get into the industry and say, "Hey, I want to own my own operation, but I don't have that," start putting feelers out. 394 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:43,040 Michael Martin: And this is why, as somebody coming into the industry, it's important to go to these trade shows. 395 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:44,820 Michael Martin: It's important to get out and know people. 396 00:48:45,799 --> 00:48:56,279 Michael Martin: Because if you start whispering, "Hey, I'm looking to buy my own place, I don't have the money to directly buy it," there's probably going to be somebody that's ready to retire. 397 00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,339 Michael Martin: And they will bring you in and help you through this process. 398 00:49:01,420 --> 00:49:05,359 Michael Martin: And you end up with their operation in some shape, form, or fashion. 399 00:49:06,119 --> 00:49:10,700 Michael Martin: I'm providing an oversimplification of it, but that's how it works. 400 00:49:11,180 --> 00:49:16,420 Michael Martin: Because, like you say, the other two options are for it to either close or just to be sold into the wild. 401 00:49:16,599 --> 00:49:16,880 Michael Martin: Yeah. 402 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,480 Michael Martin: That's not always the best plan. 403 00:49:21,980 --> 00:49:27,240 Michael Martin: Because when you have somebody new come in and take over, they may not know the ins and outs. 404 00:49:27,460 --> 00:49:29,279 Michael Martin: And there's always some adjustment. 405 00:49:30,039 --> 00:49:34,500 Michael Martin: But, yeah, we do have, at American Hort, the... 406 00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:39,160 Michael Martin: kind of the roadmap for transitions, both traditional and non-traditional. 407 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:52,400 Ping Yu: Yeah, the sad part for me is to know that most of those agricultural, horticultural properties are facing the challenge of being pushed out because... 408 00:49:52,420 --> 00:50:27,279 Ping Yu: a lot of times they were like, "Okay, you have a greenhouse operation here, but the land in and of itself is worth more if we shut down everything that you have in there and transform it into a residential area." And that's one of the challenges that a lot of people in this industry are facing. So if a young grower asked you how to set themselves up for a long-term success, what kind of suggestion would you tell them? 409 00:50:30,020 --> 00:50:47,200 Michael Martin: Work for somebody else first. That is my first suggestion. Don't open your own business day one. Go get experience. And don't be afraid to, if you stay at one job two or three years, that's fine. 410 00:50:49,140 --> 00:50:52,060 Michael Martin: But just go out and get experience. 411 00:50:52,860 --> 00:50:57,260 Michael Martin: There's a couple of family growers that I know and work with. 412 00:50:58,270 --> 00:51:08,620 Michael Martin: If you decide to come back and work at the family nursery, the family greenhouse, you have to work somewhere else for five years or 10 years before you can come into the family operation. 413 00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:15,760 Michael Martin: Because they want you to go out and get new ideas and see how other people do it before you come home, if you will. 414 00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,340 Michael Martin: And so I encourage that for everybody. 415 00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:20,580 Michael Martin: Go out and work for somebody else. 416 00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,120 Michael Martin: See what works for them, what doesn't work. 417 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:29,100 Michael Martin: Where do they deviate or do something different than... 418 00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:50,140 Michael Martin: somebody else or what you were taught. But that is my biggest and best suggestion, is when you're in college or you're in high school, go work, do internships, summer internships, afternoon work, whatever the case may be. If you have a facility close by, take that as an opportunity to go and to work with them and learn, because that is the biggest thing, is learning. 419 00:51:50,680 --> 00:52:01,220 Michael Martin: That knowledge, that information that they have as growers, that is so valuable that I honestly can't put a price on it. 420 00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:10,680 Michael Martin: And after you feel comfortable, go work for somebody else because that comfort is deceitful. 421 00:52:11,380 --> 00:52:15,500 Michael Martin: But then if you want to open your own facility, I would do that. 422 00:52:16,220 --> 00:52:17,940 Ping Yu: Yeah, I agree with that. 423 00:52:18,740 --> 00:52:37,280 Michael Martin: And I'll also encourage you, we're doing a nursery tour next week in the Maryland, Virginia area. Go on those tours. Take pictures. Because you're going to go and see stuff that you're like, "Oh, I never thought about this being a problem," or "this being a whatever." 424 00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:25,480 Ping Yu: Yeah. 425 00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,460 Michael Martin: And I love going on nursery tours. 426 00:52:40,619 --> 00:52:42,540 Michael Martin: I love going on greenhouse tours. 427 00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:58,859 Michael Martin: I just like seeing how different people have solved the same problem or how the same production idea, how it translates out into so many different iterations, but the same, you end up at the same place. 428 00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:06,400 Michael Martin: And I love seeing that because it's, you're going to open a facility up and you're going to face your own challenges. 429 00:53:07,130 --> 00:53:14,820 Michael Martin: And while how they do it may not be an exact fit, you'll have an idea of, "Oh, so-and-so did it this way." 430 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,280 Michael Martin: "If I change it just a little bit, it'll be a perfect fit for me." 431 00:53:18,859 --> 00:53:18,960 Ping Yu: Yeah. 432 00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:26,680 Michael Martin: And getting out and seeing those things, again, having those work experiences at other operations, they are so valuable. 433 00:53:26,910 --> 00:53:28,560 Michael Martin: I cannot overemphasize that. 434 00:53:28,980 --> 00:53:30,380 Ping Yu: Yeah, I agree with that. 435 00:53:32,070 --> 00:53:32,180 Michael Martin: That's... 436 00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:39,440 Ping Yu: So are there any last comments or suggestions you want to leave for our audience today? 437 00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,000 Michael Martin: Ornamental horticulture is a fantastic career. 438 00:53:45,650 --> 00:53:47,320 Michael Martin: It's a fantastic industry. 439 00:53:48,079 --> 00:53:59,040 Michael Martin: And whatever angle you want to take, whatever career you want to pursue, there's a very good chance there's a place for you in horticulture. 440 00:53:59,820 --> 00:54:00,380 Ping Yu: Thank you. 441 00:54:00,490 --> 00:54:07,740 Ping Yu: If people want to find more information on you or American Hort, where do you recommend they go look for more? 442 00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:09,119 Michael Martin: Yeah. 443 00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:13,720 Michael Martin: So go to our webpage, americanhort.org. 444 00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,619 Michael Martin: Ping, I think that's the right address off the top of my head. 445 00:54:16,619 --> 00:54:17,160 Michael Martin: I can't remember. 446 00:54:17,420 --> 00:54:23,099 Ping Yu: Yeah, I'll put the right link in the show notes so that people can find out more if they want to. 447 00:54:23,900 --> 00:54:24,119 Ping Yu: All right. 448 00:54:24,300 --> 00:54:27,500 Ping Yu: Thank you, Michael, for those wonderful conversations. 449 00:54:27,700 --> 00:54:28,720 Ping Yu: I have learned a lot. 450 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:30,500 Ping Yu: We know each other a little bit. 451 00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:34,060 Ping Yu: We know each other very well, but I still learned a lot... 452 00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:36,700 Ping Yu: in terms of the horticulture. 453 00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:38,680 Ping Yu: And so thank you so much for sharing your experience... 454 00:54:40,460 --> 00:54:45,440 Ping Yu: and expertise in horticulture and your passion in horticulture. 455 00:54:45,830 --> 00:54:46,260 Ping Yu: Thank you. 456 00:54:47,620 --> 00:54:48,120 Michael Martin: Thank you, Ping. 457 00:55:15,900 --> 00:55:17,280 Ping Yu: Thank you. 458 00:55:16,420 --> 00:55:26,180 Ping Yu: And as always, go check out the show notes to learn more about this topic and other topics we featured on the show at bandbpod.com. 459 00:55:26,540 --> 00:55:27,440 Ping Yu: Thank you for listening. 460 00:55:27,700 --> 00:55:30,600 Ping Yu: Till the next time, stay healthy and go plants!