1 00:00:05,140 --> 00:00:29,980 Ping Yu: Hello everyone, welcome to the Blooms and Beyond podcast, a podcast that uncovers plant history, culture, and management through the lens of science. I'm your host, Ping. How's everyone doing today? I'm doing great because I have one of the icons of the greenhouse pest management, entomologist 2 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:46,239 Ping Yu: and researcher Dr. Lance Osborne. Lance has been working on pest management research for years and I had the privilege of knowing him when I was doing my postdoc work at University of Florida, MREC. In today's episode we are going to pick his brain on spider mites and better management practices for greenhouse crop production. 3 00:00:47,140 --> 00:00:50,040 Ping Yu: So I don't want to steal any more thunder from our speaker today. 4 00:00:50,780 --> 00:00:54,360 Ping Yu: Without further ado, here is my conversation with Dr. Lance Osborne. 5 00:00:54,579 --> 00:00:55,760 Ping Yu: I hope you enjoy it. 6 00:01:00,059 --> 00:01:01,460 Ping Yu: Hi, Lance, welcome to the podcast. 7 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,019 Ping Yu: But first, let's start off with the introduction. 8 00:01:04,479 --> 00:01:07,940 Ping Yu: Can you tell our audience a little bit about who you are and what you do? 9 00:01:09,060 --> 00:01:15,520 Lance Osborne: Hey, my name's Lance Osborne. I'm at the Mid-Florida Research and Education Center, which is near Orlando, Florida. 10 00:01:16,100 --> 00:01:21,860 Lance Osborne: I've been here for almost 45 years, 46, something right. Who's counting anymore? 11 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,260 Lance Osborne: But I came from California, graduated from UC Davis. 12 00:01:27,630 --> 00:01:36,320 Lance Osborne: I did quite a bit of work in their greenhouses and ornamental department, working on biological control of insect pests and mites. 13 00:01:37,140 --> 00:01:44,500 Lance Osborne: I did my PhD on the greenhouse whitefly and biological control using Encarsia formosa. 14 00:01:45,579 --> 00:01:50,780 Lance Osborne: I did a postdoc on mosquitoes, which I was glad to get a job back in greenhouses. 15 00:01:51,299 --> 00:01:56,799 Lance Osborne: It's no fun going out every morning collecting 10,000 mosquitoes off of my leg. 16 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:59,600 Lance Osborne: So then I've been here ever since. 17 00:02:00,460 --> 00:02:00,979 Ping Yu: Wow. 18 00:02:01,340 --> 00:02:04,700 Lance Osborne: I enjoy working and get up every day to come to work. 19 00:02:05,399 --> 00:02:07,140 Lance Osborne: Some days it's more playing than working. 20 00:02:07,799 --> 00:02:08,599 Lance Osborne: So good job. 21 00:02:09,099 --> 00:02:19,440 Ping Yu: I remember seeing you every morning when I was at MREC back three years ago and I was like, I go to work every day and I was like, Lance is here every day. 22 00:02:19,739 --> 00:02:29,440 Ping Yu: But do you see yourself growing up as a nature kid or are you interested in the beginning with pests when you were a child or is this something 23 00:02:30,020 --> 00:02:33,840 Ping Yu: that stumped us through your education to this trajectory? 24 00:02:35,140 --> 00:02:46,700 Lance Osborne: I was kind of a wild kid. My parents let me run out the door in the morning in Florida, where I grew up in Cape Canaveral. And so I'd run around for the whole day doing whatever. 25 00:02:47,160 --> 00:03:00,519 Lance Osborne: I really got interested in insects just as a kid. I had friends that took entomology as a— I basically collected all their collections for them. 26 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:07,480 Lance Osborne: And then I went to UC Davis, and I was in pre-vet, but I couldn't stand the blood and gore. 27 00:03:08,620 --> 00:03:13,440 Lance Osborne: And so I started working on other things, and they were all going extinct. 28 00:03:13,629 --> 00:03:18,540 Lance Osborne: So I started working on insects, because I knew I wouldn't have to worry about losing them. 29 00:03:19,700 --> 00:03:25,140 Ping Yu: That's a good shift of all those extinct things that you ended up with insects. 30 00:03:25,770 --> 00:03:33,400 Ping Yu: So basically you grew up in Florida and you went to school in California and then come back to Florida for your job. 31 00:03:34,260 --> 00:03:41,780 Ping Yu: What is the big difference? Like you having lived in both states, what would be the biggest difference? 32 00:03:43,620 --> 00:04:07,100 Lance Osborne: Florida's a zoo. You go outside and there's stuff crawling around everywhere. There's probably more going on than any one person can handle. It's fun, but sometimes you lose, if you're like me, the OCD. I keep going from a short attention span. I go from one thing to another. That's why I love my job. There's always something to work on. There's always something new. 33 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:32,480 Ping Yu: Yeah, you're right. And especially in the ornamental world, we're dealing with thousands of different plants. With the pests, I know there's countless work that can be done. So I guess it's a job safety, too, or job security. All those pests that you have worked with, if you had to pick one, which one would be your favorite? 34 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,760 Lance Osborne: I don't know if I can say I have a favorite. 35 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:37,480 Lance Osborne: I like working with spider mites and mites in general, but I kind of lean toward white— 36 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,120 Lance Osborne: flies as being the one that I like the most. 37 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,940 Lance Osborne: But spider mites basically was what I was hired to do. 38 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:57,500 Lance Osborne: Even though I did my PhD on whiteflies, I was told that I'd never work on whiteflies ever again when I came to Florida. 39 00:04:58,600 --> 00:04:59,680 Lance Osborne: And why is that? 40 00:05:01,060 --> 00:05:03,120 Lance Osborne: They said they just didn't see them. 41 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:11,360 Lance Osborne: And basically five years later, I've been working on whiteflies, a bunch of different whiteflies ever since. 42 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:13,580 Lance Osborne: I didn't bring them. 43 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,220 Lance Osborne: I didn't bring them to Florida, I swear. 44 00:05:17,140 --> 00:05:24,880 Ping Yu: People would blame you, say, hey, before you came here, we don't have whitefly issues. Now all of a sudden we have all those whiteflies coming to Florida. 45 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,440 Lance Osborne: It's just because somebody was here looking for them. 46 00:05:29,540 --> 00:05:45,920 Ping Yu: You're right. You're right. I know Florida because I lived in Florida for about a year and Florida has its unique environment which is good for a lot of plants, but also a heaven for the pests, I would say that. 47 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:56,220 Ping Yu: What is the top pest challenge in greenhouses in Florida specifically? 48 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:20,080 Lance Osborne: The challenge is that if a grower is going to try to save money and be able to grow a healthy crop, he's got to pay attention to spider mites. So it's the foundation of an IPM program had to be something that could manage spider mites. And that was the truth nationwide. 49 00:06:20,260 --> 00:06:32,060 Lance Osborne: There was a study done out of Georgia with Will Hudson that basically said spider mites were the most sprayed pests in ornamentals nationwide. 50 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:33,780 Lance Osborne: More chemicals went out. 51 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,020 Lance Osborne: So that was a logical place to start in trying to develop an IPM program. 52 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:48,140 Lance Osborne: And then as you start picking off one pest at a time, you start getting all these other ones that come in when you reduce the pesticide pressure. 53 00:06:49,260 --> 00:06:55,260 Lance Osborne: And so then we went from one to another and it's been an ongoing saga ever since. 54 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,240 Lance Osborne: But we have very good management programs for spider mites. 55 00:07:00,540 --> 00:07:06,000 Ping Yu: Yeah, I know spider mites and pests and plants are similar to... 56 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:40,420 Ping Yu: human being, we would adjust to a certain environment. If the environment is their favorite place, then they would just survive in there. And do you think that Florida is providing the favorite environmental condition for spider mites to survive in that regard. I mean, like you said, spider mites is everywhere in greenhouse, but specifically in Florida. Do you think that Florida provided a better environment for them to be a bigger problem? 57 00:07:41,319 --> 00:07:56,460 Lance Osborne: I think they are allowed to, because we have a year-round nice accommodating temperatures and environments so that you don't get a break in the life cycle like you do as you move north and get colder and actually have freezes. 58 00:07:57,020 --> 00:07:59,819 Lance Osborne: We don't have mites go into diapause here. 59 00:08:00,740 --> 00:08:04,500 Lance Osborne: And so we don't see the red version that everybody keeps talking about. 60 00:08:04,890 --> 00:08:06,760 Lance Osborne: I haven't seen one in Florida. 61 00:08:08,050 --> 00:08:13,160 Lance Osborne: But again, they prefer it hot and dry, which is kind of— we're not hot, dry. 62 00:08:13,650 --> 00:08:15,080 Lance Osborne: We're plenty hot, but not dry. 63 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:15,840 Ping Yu: Yeah. 64 00:08:16,100 --> 00:08:18,140 Lance Osborne: So, I mean, but nationwide. 65 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,780 Lance Osborne: Mites are a major issue in greenhouses. 66 00:08:23,660 --> 00:08:28,960 Ping Yu: Because you kind of briefly mentioned the life cycle in Florida, they don't take a break. 67 00:08:29,479 --> 00:08:33,860 Ping Yu: But can you elaborate us a little bit more specifically for spider mites? 68 00:08:33,860 --> 00:08:36,240 Ping Yu: What are their life cycles? 69 00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:54,980 Lance Osborne: Okay, well, basically you have the egg, you have a larval stage, you have a protonymph, and a deutonymph. I haven't memorized its life cycle that well. Mainly working on whiteflies, so I forgot some of this stuff. But the bottom line is you go through a number of different immature stages. 70 00:08:55,320 --> 00:09:11,500 Lance Osborne: And they molt to become an adult, depending on temperature. The temperature drives how quickly the mites progress through all these stages. And so we can have a life cycle that you can have a generation in about two weeks. 71 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,420 Lance Osborne: Okay, so they can really develop quickly. 72 00:09:16,020 --> 00:09:19,560 Lance Osborne: And as it gets colder, it can be up to 40, 50 days. 73 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:21,560 Lance Osborne: So it just depends on the temperature. 74 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,940 Ping Yu: Yeah, because I was pulling stuff up here. 75 00:09:25,260 --> 00:09:28,280 Ping Yu: Five different stages, from egg, larva, 76 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:33,100 Ping Yu: protonymph and deutonymph, I don't know if I pronounce it right. 77 00:09:33,540 --> 00:09:35,300 Ping Yu: Yeah, and then adult. 78 00:09:36,860 --> 00:09:42,400 Ping Yu: Two weeks is pretty short for them to finish the whole life cycle. 79 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,340 Ping Yu: So they can reproduce really fast. 80 00:09:45,580 --> 00:09:57,800 Ping Yu: Well, I guess one of the big issues for any of the pests, and if you wanted to manage them, you would know which stage that they are most devastating for plants were. 81 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,840 Lance Osborne: Well, I mean, the adult's going to be able to do the most damage. 82 00:10:01,020 --> 00:10:09,380 Lance Osborne: because it's bigger. Basically, they penetrate the cells, remove the fluids, and that cell dies. 83 00:10:09,420 --> 00:10:32,040 Lance Osborne: And so you get little yellow marks and stippling. And as they feed on it more, the yellow spots get bigger. They coalesce. And so you can see the population growing just by looking at the yellow. As you get larger mites, they just feed on a lot more cells, and so the spots get bigger. 84 00:10:33,399 --> 00:10:36,320 Lance Osborne: And generally, where there's one adult, there's going to be a whole lot more. 85 00:10:36,839 --> 00:10:39,700 Lance Osborne: So they can cause damage very quickly. 86 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:48,040 Ping Yu: But among all those five stages of the life cycle of spider mites, only the adults cause damage to the plants? 87 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:58,920 Lance Osborne: Even the very young ones will do a little bit of feeding. So they all cause damage. It's just that I do more damage on eating the steak at my house than my kids do. 88 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:00,279 Lance Osborne: Because I'm bigger. 89 00:11:01,839 --> 00:11:02,180 Ping Yu: Okay. 90 00:11:02,459 --> 00:11:12,680 Ping Yu: So for the larva and the two nymphal stages, it still causes damage to the plant, just not to the extent of the adult does, right? 91 00:11:13,519 --> 00:11:14,779 Lance Osborne: Yeah, that's correct. 92 00:11:15,079 --> 00:11:20,079 Lance Osborne: And each of those stages, just before they molt to another stage, they have a resting stage. 93 00:11:20,420 --> 00:11:21,560 Lance Osborne: which doesn't feed. 94 00:11:21,980 --> 00:11:32,700 Lance Osborne: So their whole time as a larva or a deutonymph or protonymph has got half of its time in a resting stage, molting and developing to the next stage. 95 00:11:33,940 --> 00:11:37,320 Ping Yu: And how long does that stage last? 96 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,500 Ping Yu: A day or two or...? 97 00:11:39,620 --> 00:11:42,820 Lance Osborne: It depends on which ones, and again, it depends on the temperature. 98 00:11:43,580 --> 00:11:53,980 Ping Yu: So do all those stages of the spider mites live on the plant leaves, or do any of them live in the soil? 99 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,860 Lance Osborne: None in the soil. 100 00:11:57,730 --> 00:12:00,240 Lance Osborne: Okay, most of the mites are found on the plant. 101 00:12:00,370 --> 00:12:02,839 Lance Osborne: They prefer to be on the underside of the leaf. 102 00:12:03,449 --> 00:12:09,779 Lance Osborne: But that doesn't mean that as the populations grow, under pressure, they may move on to the top of the leaf. 103 00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:08,640 Lance Osborne: Yeah. 104 00:12:10,380 --> 00:12:16,019 Lance Osborne: And as the population gets really high and the plant's starting to suffer, they will 105 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:25,259 Lance Osborne: develop webbing and basically as a mechanism to disperse from that plant that they perceive as probably going downhill. 106 00:12:25,980 --> 00:12:29,620 Lance Osborne: So they can be carried by the wind on these strands of silk. 107 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,459 Lance Osborne: These strands of silk can get on people's clothing. 108 00:12:32,660 --> 00:12:37,040 Lance Osborne: So then if you brush against them, you're going to transmit them to someplace else in the greenhouse. 109 00:12:37,940 --> 00:12:41,899 Lance Osborne: or a pet, another animal— they can hitchhike. 110 00:12:42,630 --> 00:12:48,759 Lance Osborne: But it's mainly the silk is a way that they help transfer themselves from one plant to another. 111 00:12:49,540 --> 00:12:50,459 Ping Yu: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 112 00:12:50,569 --> 00:12:59,399 Ping Yu: Because I know that for spider mites, I guess that's the late stage of the spider mites when the population has already built up so quickly. 113 00:12:59,839 --> 00:13:03,440 Ping Yu: And so you can start seeing the web now. 114 00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:07,800 Ping Yu: But that will be too late for people to take any actions to control the pest, right? 115 00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:09,980 Lance Osborne: Yeah, it depends. 116 00:13:10,290 --> 00:13:13,620 Lance Osborne: If you really don't mind, you're going to have damage on that plant. 117 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:14,699 Lance Osborne: It's not going to go away. 118 00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:20,019 Lance Osborne: So if it's gotten to that point, you might as well, if you want to sell a quality plant, you might as well dump it. 119 00:13:21,519 --> 00:13:22,000 Ping Yu: Yeah. 120 00:13:23,180 --> 00:13:27,279 Lance Osborne: But if it's your pet plants in the house, you probably do what you can to save it. 121 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,540 Lance Osborne: So it just depends on what your goals are. 122 00:13:29,980 --> 00:13:30,420 Ping Yu: Yeah. 123 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:37,420 Ping Yu: So you kind of mentioned that the pest normally would stay in the lower side of the leaves. 124 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:43,040 Ping Yu: So that's where people, if people are scouting for the plant, that's where people should be looking for, right? 125 00:13:43,819 --> 00:13:47,220 Lance Osborne: Yep, they should be turning leaves over and looking at the bottom of the leaves. 126 00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:50,779 Ping Yu: And what exactly should they be looking for? 127 00:13:50,870 --> 00:13:53,959 Ping Yu: What is the first sign of the spider mite? 128 00:13:54,170 --> 00:14:00,740 Ping Yu: Some of the first or early symptoms that people would start getting their eye on the pest? 129 00:14:00,899 --> 00:14:05,019 Lance Osborne: I think they'll probably see the yellow stippling on the top of the leaf first. 130 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,860 Lance Osborne: But it depends on how good you are at looking at things. 131 00:14:09,420 --> 00:14:16,380 Lance Osborne: You have, and this is a problem I have with a lot of trade shows, that these people pick up the small plastic hand lenses. 132 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:18,940 Lance Osborne: They're not good enough, okay? 133 00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:24,880 Lance Osborne: Especially nowadays when we're dealing with broad mites and thrips parvispinus, chilli thrips. 134 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,200 Lance Osborne: You need a good hand lens. 135 00:14:27,420 --> 00:14:28,360 Lance Osborne: It's worth the investment. 136 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:34,060 Lance Osborne: It's going to cost you $40, $50, but it's something you can use, and you can actually see something. 137 00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:53,400 Lance Osborne: And then you can see the adults. You will see often the eggs may be laying around. You'll see these little round, spherical, opalescent white eggs on the underside of the leaf. They look like they may be floating because they're on some of the webbing. 138 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,640 Lance Osborne: And that's again another telltale sign. 139 00:14:56,650 --> 00:15:00,300 Lance Osborne: You may see dead bodies laying around, especially if you have a predator. 140 00:15:00,740 --> 00:15:05,020 Lance Osborne: The predatory mite will remove the fluids and you'll see these little bodies laying around. 141 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,000 Ping Yu: What are the host range for spider mites? 142 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,240 Ping Yu: I know that they can cause damage to a wide range of plants. 143 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:20,640 Ping Yu: What are the main ones that are most susceptible to spider mites in the greenhouse setting? 144 00:15:21,580 --> 00:15:22,140 Ping Yu: Yeah. 145 00:15:22,500 --> 00:16:02,120 Lance Osborne: It's like which ones aren't. Croton is one. Dieffenbachia is one. Gerbera daisy. We get a spider mite I think it's called Lewis mite on poinsettia. So it depends on the host plant. We get spider mites. They're always on hibiscus. In the greenhouse and for maintaining colonies of things, we often use beans, lima beans. So they get on a lot of different vegetables. The solanaceous crops, you will get a different— Tetranychus evansi, which is a little tiny mite that feeds on tomatoes and eggplant, and they're a reddish color. 146 00:16:03,620 --> 00:16:07,460 Lance Osborne: So if I have a plant, I can probably get a mite to go on it. 147 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:22,900 Ping Yu: So basically, I guess they would have their favorite, but they generally feed on any ornamental plant in the greenhouse, and maybe that's one of the reasons why they're the top one challenging any of the greenhouse nationwide. 148 00:16:27,580 --> 00:16:36,300 Ping Yu: For people who were able to, let's say, they were able to spot the first sign of the spider mites from their scouting process. 149 00:16:36,820 --> 00:16:38,580 Ping Yu: What should they do next? 150 00:16:38,810 --> 00:16:39,760 Ping Yu: They need to take actions. 151 00:16:39,950 --> 00:16:52,200 Ping Yu: What are some of the effective management practices that they need to take on, especially if they're a good grower, they can spot on those early signs of spider mites. 152 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:53,019 Ping Yu: What should they do? 153 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,100 Lance Osborne: Okay, well, the first thing is... 154 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:03,779 Lance Osborne: So our growers need to, basically, I think they need to make sure they know what they're fighting. 155 00:17:04,220 --> 00:17:04,360 Lance Osborne: Okay. 156 00:17:05,179 --> 00:17:11,039 Lance Osborne: Some of the guys that have been working a few years know exactly what spider mites are and don't really need to do much more than that. 157 00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:16,199 Lance Osborne: Then if it's a really bad infestation, trying to cure... 158 00:17:16,459 --> 00:17:20,480 Lance Osborne: A lost cause is just a waste of time and money and puts everything else at risk. 159 00:17:20,620 --> 00:17:30,279 Lance Osborne: So get the really nasty ones out of the greenhouse, destroy them, make sure they get someplace that it's not going to reinfest your greenhouse plants. 160 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:37,779 Lance Osborne: Then you kind of try to scout to see how far it's spread, how wide of an area do you need to treat. 161 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,960 Lance Osborne: Is it just a few plants or do you have to treat everything in the greenhouse? 162 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:52,880 Lance Osborne: Whether you're going to use a chemical and treat the whole nursery or spot treat, or whether you're going to go another route and get biological control. 163 00:17:53,060 --> 00:17:55,440 Lance Osborne: It just depends on the level that you're dealing with. 164 00:17:55,460 --> 00:17:59,240 Lance Osborne: If it's a few mites, you might be able to get a biocontrol program. 165 00:17:59,740 --> 00:18:06,400 Lance Osborne: But once they're really well established, you need to drop the population back and start from the beginning. 166 00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:15,320 Ping Yu: So what are some of the chemical or effective chemicals that can be used for spider mites treatment? 167 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,800 Lance Osborne: Well, that—I could have somebody standing here, somebody next door. 168 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:35,060 Lance Osborne: Ask that question, and the answer is going to be different for both of them, because you can have localized populations where they're resistant to pesticides, and they can be even almost in the same greenhouse. 169 00:18:35,950 --> 00:18:38,460 Lance Osborne: So there's no magic bullet. 170 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:44,559 Lance Osborne: I can recommend a few that I think work well, but you have to try. 171 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:56,580 Lance Osborne: That's where your scouting comes in, is that you need to go to the spot where the mites were after treating and ascertain whether your chemical is actually doing what you think it's supposed to be doing. 172 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,240 Lance Osborne: And so you have to have a good scouting program. 173 00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:06,280 Lance Osborne: You have to stick with it so that you make your application and you go back to those plants. 174 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,000 Lance Osborne: And it depends on the chemical. 175 00:19:08,340 --> 00:19:11,039 Lance Osborne: For example, Avid, people used to say it wasn't working. 176 00:19:11,559 --> 00:19:16,000 Lance Osborne: They go through and they spray and they come back the next day and there would be some live mites. 177 00:19:16,299 --> 00:19:19,780 Lance Osborne: Some of them don't die or they don't shrivel up and turn brown. 178 00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:28,700 Lance Osborne: So with Avid, they'd be sitting there, they'd look like they're healthy. But they're a little bit raised up on their, like on stilts. 179 00:19:29,049 --> 00:19:31,580 Lance Osborne: And you could touch them and they'd fall over like tipping cattle. 180 00:19:31,770 --> 00:19:32,620 Lance Osborne: They just fall over. 181 00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:33,440 Lance Osborne: They don't do anything. 182 00:19:33,780 --> 00:19:34,320 Lance Osborne: They look healthy. 183 00:19:34,390 --> 00:19:35,419 Lance Osborne: They didn't dry out. 184 00:19:35,510 --> 00:19:38,660 Lance Osborne: So it's like they were encased in plastic or something. 185 00:19:39,740 --> 00:19:42,340 Lance Osborne: Some don't, will take seven days to work. 186 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:47,980 Lance Osborne: So you can't go out in three days and if you don't see anything, just think that it didn't work. 187 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,280 Lance Osborne: And that happens with a number of some of the newer ones. They're a little bit slower acting. 188 00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:57,720 Lance Osborne: So you have to be somewhat patient. You have to learn from experience. 189 00:19:58,100 --> 00:20:04,120 Lance Osborne: So keep notes, if not for you, for the next guy that may be trying to control mites in your greenhouse. 190 00:20:06,019 --> 00:20:12,639 Lance Osborne: We get into some controversy in trying to tell people what to do next. 191 00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:23,980 Lance Osborne: In some cases, we have people that say you need to hit the mites with a different chemistry every time you apply it. 192 00:20:24,620 --> 00:20:29,220 Lance Osborne: Some say you need to apply it a couple times in a row before you change to the next chemistry. 193 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,380 Lance Osborne: I personally believe that it's like a gun. You've only got six bullets. 194 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:41,580 Lance Osborne: If you treat it with Avid and then you switch, well, that Avid is probably still on the plant active. 195 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,340 Lance Osborne: You come back too quick within three to five days and it's still active. 196 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,800 Lance Osborne: You just covered it over with some more of the same stuff. 197 00:20:49,539 --> 00:20:54,700 Lance Osborne: And you have to consider what the residual activity is and how long something may last. 198 00:20:55,299 --> 00:21:01,860 Lance Osborne: So I generally say to rotate the class of chemistry four or five days. 199 00:21:01,980 --> 00:21:11,860 Lance Osborne: If it's really bad, I'd try to hit it with the second application of something within about five days and then two or three times and use at least three or four different modes of action. 200 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:23,060 Lance Osborne: I don't recommend having more than four modes of action because then what happens is we've had some of our best growers put like five, six in a rotation. 201 00:21:23,690 --> 00:21:27,160 Lance Osborne: And one of those six is not going to be very active. 202 00:21:27,950 --> 00:21:32,020 Lance Osborne: OK, the chances are that the bug is resistant to it or tolerant. 203 00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:34,480 Lance Osborne: And so you don't break the life cycle. 204 00:21:35,100 --> 00:21:42,340 Lance Osborne: So if you have a dud in there, then you're not going to rotate and treat with the most effective materials. 205 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,940 Lance Osborne: But you have to pay attention after each application. 206 00:21:47,130 --> 00:21:47,960 Lance Osborne: Does that make sense? 207 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,600 Ping Yu: Yes. You mentioned that we have to go back to the life cycle again. 208 00:21:53,020 --> 00:22:01,480 Ping Yu: When we apply for whatever treatment that we are trying, we probably also need to think about the life cycle of the pest itself. 209 00:22:02,100 --> 00:22:11,760 Ping Yu: When would the spider mite be the most vulnerable and that will make the application of the chemistry most effective, right? 210 00:22:12,620 --> 00:22:17,160 Lance Osborne: Well, I think that the egg is probably the least susceptible. 211 00:22:18,330 --> 00:22:22,100 Lance Osborne: Then the larval stage being small, it's really not feeding that much. 212 00:22:22,530 --> 00:22:24,920 Lance Osborne: Even water and soap is going to knock it off. 213 00:22:25,180 --> 00:22:31,540 Lance Osborne: But as far as chemistry goes, I think the nymphal stages are probably very susceptible, the adult being the least susceptible. 214 00:22:32,340 --> 00:22:42,039 Ping Yu: So we would be, if we're applying for the chemistry or the products, the miticides, that would be the nymphal stage would be the one that we're going to target for, right? 215 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:44,159 Lance Osborne: Yeah, I would say that. 216 00:22:45,580 --> 00:22:49,620 Lance Osborne: But your chemistry is going to last almost as long as the whole life cycle. 217 00:22:49,740 --> 00:22:51,919 Lance Osborne: So all those stages are going to be exposed. 218 00:22:53,140 --> 00:23:03,320 Lance Osborne: I'm not that worried. Some people will use an ovicide, but again, those eggs are going to hatch almost before the residual of that chemistry is no longer effective. 219 00:23:02,059 --> 00:23:02,179 Lance Osborne: Yeah. 220 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:13,100 Lance Osborne: Now, if you're using something like the citric acid or things that have absolutely no residual activity, then you probably want to get the younger ones. 221 00:23:13,820 --> 00:23:19,500 Ping Yu: What about the, because I know neem oil, well, like the neem oil products also... 222 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,880 Ping Yu: are often used to control the pests in general. 223 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,860 Ping Yu: If we were putting the neem oil, when would that be the best time? 224 00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:35,460 Lance Osborne: I'm afraid to answer that truthfully because I've never been that excited about the neem oil. 225 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:36,640 Lance Osborne: All right. 226 00:23:36,860 --> 00:23:37,780 Lance Osborne: Especially on mites. 227 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,180 Lance Osborne: So, I mean, I'm biased. 228 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:42,180 Lance Osborne: Yeah. 229 00:23:41,940 --> 00:23:45,000 Ping Yu: Because it's not that effective in terms of control? 230 00:23:45,180 --> 00:23:45,540 Lance Osborne: Again. 231 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:45,920 Ping Yu: Okay. 232 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,780 Ping Yu: But what about the biocontrol? 233 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,120 Ping Yu: Because you have worked a lot on the biocontrol perspective. 234 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:02,420 Ping Yu: What are—I know there are good biocontrol agents that are effective for spider mites. 235 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:07,280 Ping Yu: Can you tell us a little bit more of the biocontrol for the spider mites? 236 00:24:08,060 --> 00:24:08,540 Ping Yu: Sure. 237 00:24:08,220 --> 00:24:11,519 Lance Osborne: I obviously am a big fan of biocontrol. 238 00:24:11,980 --> 00:24:16,120 Lance Osborne: I've been working on biocontrol of spider mites from the day I started here in Florida. 239 00:24:16,460 --> 00:24:27,380 Lance Osborne: My predecessor, Dr. Hamlen, had worked on spider mites using persimilis and then one called macropilis, which is similar to persimilis, but it's indigenous to Florida. 240 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,060 Lance Osborne: We have a whole array of natural enemies that are effective. 241 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,880 Lance Osborne: They all have a place that can be carved out for their use. 242 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,000 Lance Osborne: I personally prefer using californicus. 243 00:24:40,060 --> 00:24:47,100 Lance Osborne: You really want to start a population and start releasing natural enemies even before you find the spider mites. 244 00:24:47,100 --> 00:24:48,260 Lance Osborne: You want them in the system. 245 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,360 Lance Osborne: Let them be your scouts. 246 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,400 Lance Osborne: Let them run around and look for... 247 00:24:52,540 --> 00:25:12,700 Lance Osborne: spider mites. If you find a spider mite infestation that's pretty heavy, then you probably want to use a combination, use persimilis and californicus, because persimilis is able to knock the population down quicker than californicus. They are more voracious, but they only feed on spider mites. 248 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:24,900 Lance Osborne: So if you have a plant like ivy or a croton that gets broad mites, you're going to lose your crop to the broad mites because nothing there is to—you're not spraying and you've got a predator persimilis that won't eat them. 249 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,620 Lance Osborne: Okay, so californicus is critical. 250 00:25:28,380 --> 00:25:31,880 Lance Osborne: Californicus will run around and it can survive on one egg a day. 251 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:42,940 Lance Osborne: Okay, so then you have this population of californicus that will almost establish in the crop, feeding on other things other than spider mites. 252 00:25:43,340 --> 00:25:47,880 Lance Osborne: Persimilis is a very host-specific predatory mite. 253 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,400 Lance Osborne: It feeds on... 254 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,500 Lance Osborne: Not all spider mites, even. 255 00:25:51,550 --> 00:25:54,760 Lance Osborne: It prefers two-spotted and maybe a little bit more. 256 00:25:55,100 --> 00:25:56,120 Lance Osborne: It might feed on Glover mite. 257 00:25:56,380 --> 00:26:01,700 Lance Osborne: It's very sensitive to the host that it has to feed on, whereas californicus isn't. 258 00:26:02,620 --> 00:26:04,440 Lance Osborne: Then you have an array of other players. 259 00:26:05,740 --> 00:26:13,280 Lance Osborne: We're using banker plants now, and we're using both the predatory mites and the—Feltiella acarisuga or something like that. 260 00:26:13,620 --> 00:26:15,320 Lance Osborne: Feltiella, it's a little fly. 261 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:35,740 Lance Osborne: And we found that this fly can, if we put a plant in today, put a few mites on it, and have the banker plant system in all the way across the greenhouse, by the end of the weekend, three days later, we can find the midges on that plant across the greenhouse. 262 00:26:36,049 --> 00:26:40,559 Lance Osborne: So they're very adept at moving around and finding spider mites. 263 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:51,700 Lance Osborne: If I take a plant with spider mites on it and put it outside, within two weeks, I'm going to have a population in Florida, at least, or Apopka, I'm going to have a population of that midge. 264 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,360 Lance Osborne: So they're very effective searchers. 265 00:26:55,220 --> 00:26:58,019 Lance Osborne: They can be used with all the other predatory mites. 266 00:26:58,039 --> 00:27:07,000 Lance Osborne: So the combination is you have something going around the whole greenhouse looking for mites, and then you have those predatory mites that are... 267 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,680 Lance Osborne: pretty much staying in and around where they are. 268 00:27:09,980 --> 00:27:13,140 Lance Osborne: They don't travel nearly as much, and they can't fly. 269 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:30,900 Ping Yu: So I'm not an entomologist, so this might be a dumb question, but I know some of those predatory mites— like you said, they can be host-specific and some will be eating other pests. 270 00:27:31,340 --> 00:27:50,660 Ping Yu: So when you decide, when you are planning or developing the biocontrol program, how are you going to decide which biocontrol agent they are going to be using, even if it's just a single agent or use a combination, how would you help people to decide that? 271 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:56,120 Lance Osborne: Okay, the first thing is you look at your crop. What kind of other pests is it going to get? 272 00:27:56,530 --> 00:28:13,620 Lance Osborne: Okay, now I recommend that if you've got something that gets an array of pests and it does get broad mite, that you look at—you're going to— I just say, the swirskii. If you're going to use persimilis, you're going to have to put something in with persimilis to eat the broad mites. 273 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:21,180 Lance Osborne: So you could use swirskii, or you could throw in californicus, or you could throw in limonicus, all of which will feed on broad mites. 274 00:28:21,740 --> 00:28:32,880 Lance Osborne: If it isn't too bad of an infestation, or it's really early, or from past history, that you get spider mites, then I would put in californicus as the one that I'd put out first. 275 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:34,300 Lance Osborne: But it depends. 276 00:28:34,670 --> 00:28:41,320 Lance Osborne: Like I said, we try to get it started before we ever find a spider mite and let the predatory mites find them for us. 277 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:43,040 Lance Osborne: Okay. 278 00:28:44,620 --> 00:28:50,600 Lance Osborne: If that crop has been exposed at all to pesticides... 279 00:28:51,020 --> 00:28:55,720 Lance Osborne: like a bifenthrin or anything like that, persimilis probably wouldn't be the choice. 280 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:01,320 Lance Osborne: Californicus has some already built in, some of the—chemicals that are— 281 00:29:01,780 --> 00:29:02,179 Lance Osborne: Start again. 282 00:29:02,340 --> 00:29:12,080 Lance Osborne: Some of the mite populations or californicus populations that are sold have some ability to detoxify or live on plants that have been treated. 283 00:29:12,620 --> 00:29:22,179 Lance Osborne: We have a strain that's been selected that's extremely resistant to bifenthrin or Talstar, so we don't have to worry about pyrethroids. 284 00:29:24,580 --> 00:29:28,179 Lance Osborne: But persimilis, you open a bottle across the room and they almost die. 285 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:44,539 Ping Yu: Yeah, so I don't know how many growers out there only solely use biocontrol because normally it's going to be a combination of biocontrol, cultural control or cultural practice and chemical control. 286 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,840 Ping Yu: Would you, like in your opinion, what is the ratio? 287 00:29:49,260 --> 00:29:53,460 Ping Yu: Spider mites would be the most effective, for instance, 80% of biocontrol. 288 00:29:54,140 --> 00:30:03,600 Ping Yu: or 20% of chemical control because they're, like you said, they have, the biocontrol has compatibility with the chemical here and there. 289 00:30:03,620 --> 00:30:06,940 Lance Osborne: There's certain chemicals that we can use in conjunction with biocontrol. 290 00:30:08,380 --> 00:30:31,679 Lance Osborne: I recommend until you've got a trained customer, to know what biocontrol is, that you look toward the very end of the crop to use the pesticides to clean up and make sure that there's nothing running around on there to cause your customer, until they become more sophisticated in understanding what's going on and realize that it's positive to have natural enemies running around. 291 00:30:32,519 --> 00:30:42,960 Lance Osborne: I think that the companies that are selling natural enemies today have a workforce that are out in the field helping growers get these things established. 292 00:30:43,559 --> 00:30:46,919 Lance Osborne: I don't want to take anything away from them because they do a good job. 293 00:30:47,370 --> 00:30:51,399 Lance Osborne: And so you have to work with those people because they know... 294 00:30:51,420 --> 00:31:27,419 Lance Osborne: the population or the selection of particular predators that they have and what it can tolerate and what it can't. Okay. So they know that their predators have been surviving in crops that have been treated with this and this, but not this and this. So there you always go to the source and ask them okay, what they would recommend. Initially, you're going to need an extension agent or one of the chemical reps or one of those university people or other growers to help you get it started. 295 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:59,440 Lance Osborne: And that's another reason why we like banker plants because some people go into a biocontrol program thinking that's the cure-all end-all. Years and years ago at Disney we were using persimilis on roses and it worked so well they wanted to do biocontrol on everything throughout the whole Walt Disney World. That wasn't going to happen because there's too many other pests in Florida that they would—they never let me even— if I was paying, back into the park. 296 00:31:57,740 --> 00:31:57,880 Lance Osborne: Yeah. 297 00:32:01,140 --> 00:32:17,240 Ping Yu: So I guess it really depends. The reason why I'm asking this is because I have heard more and more people, growers, who are interested in adopting the biocontrol in their property, in their operation, because one, chemicals can 298 00:32:17,179 --> 00:32:22,980 Ping Yu: be really expensive if you calculate the mass, like how many applications that they have to do. 299 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:36,360 Ping Yu: And with biocontrol, I think what the lack of training right now or even resources are the big hurdle for a lot of growers who want to get involved in there. 300 00:32:36,419 --> 00:32:37,000 Ping Yu: There's— 301 00:32:38,660 --> 00:32:39,380 Lance Osborne: They're increasing. 302 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:39,880 Lance Osborne: Okay. 303 00:32:40,220 --> 00:32:43,320 Lance Osborne: It's like there's a new consultant in Florida every week. 304 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:43,940 Lance Osborne: Okay. 305 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:45,920 Lance Osborne: I get all these new people coming in. 306 00:32:45,940 --> 00:32:47,880 Lance Osborne: So there's a lot of people that are learning how. 307 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:49,900 Lance Osborne: There's lots of videos on— 308 00:32:49,980 --> 00:32:55,160 Lance Osborne: I have one, I think, a hemp website about using biocontrol. 309 00:32:55,260 --> 00:32:57,260 Lance Osborne: But there are people where you can get help. 310 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,260 Lance Osborne: You don't want to start in a large greenhouse trying biocontrol. 311 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:04,460 Lance Osborne: Take a couple plants. 312 00:33:04,980 --> 00:33:09,200 Lance Osborne: Take a bean plant, put it out in the nursery where you have some spider mite problems. 313 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:14,420 Lance Osborne: Take that bean plant and put it back, maybe even in the office or in a protected area. 314 00:33:15,220 --> 00:33:17,840 Lance Osborne: Get some predators, put it on, and see what happens. 315 00:33:19,260 --> 00:33:25,320 Lance Osborne: Start small, teach yourself what's going to happen so you're not totally unaware. You 316 00:33:25,340 --> 00:33:44,100 Ping Yu: know what these things can do. Yeah, and there's no cure-all type of thing because it's very complicated ways, the pest itself and the crop itself. So you always want to learn, like take baby steps, like you said, start small. 317 00:33:44,660 --> 00:34:03,960 Lance Osborne: I know that we had a problem in one nursery and we used one that's particularly soft, is Sultan. It could be used with the predators and it was very effective and we still had predators alive. So there are those tools. And like I said, californicus is much more tolerant than persimilis. 318 00:34:08,540 --> 00:34:24,760 Ping Yu: But another perspective of pest control, where spider mite control would be coming back to the cultural control, where it's more like a prevention step. What are the cultural practices that growers can adopt to prevent the pest? 319 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:37,079 Lance Osborne: Well, I mean, first of all, when you buy in plant material, you have to realize that you might have a pest of some sort. 320 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:29,179 Lance Osborne: Yeah. 321 00:34:37,230 --> 00:34:40,200 Lance Osborne: So, one, you have a quarantine facility, okay? 322 00:34:40,819 --> 00:34:42,899 Lance Osborne: You have some place to watch those plants. 323 00:34:43,349 --> 00:34:47,139 Lance Osborne: And so they may not have yellow stippling today, but they could have it tomorrow. 324 00:34:47,569 --> 00:34:50,980 Lance Osborne: So you don't put it in and spread it throughout your whole nursery. 325 00:34:51,860 --> 00:34:58,540 Lance Osborne: Two. You don't even have to have some roots on them, but the small plants, we do dip. 326 00:35:00,260 --> 00:35:05,260 Lance Osborne: We've heard a lot of talk about some people doing research on dipping. 327 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:17,420 Lance Osborne: We did that years and years and years ago and found that we didn't have an increase in disease. We had very good control of mealybugs and spider mites and aphids. 328 00:35:17,860 --> 00:35:31,140 Lance Osborne: Our local growers here were using, they go to a large grocery store that we have here, Publix, and buy Publix brand dish soap and make a 1% solution. 329 00:35:31,620 --> 00:35:34,000 Lance Osborne: They all tried it and had good success. 330 00:35:34,740 --> 00:35:39,220 Lance Osborne: That was another step to try to start with clean plant material. 331 00:35:40,180 --> 00:35:51,240 Lance Osborne: You try to maximize— Mites really like or do well along in the plants that are close to a road. 332 00:35:51,980 --> 00:35:58,560 Lance Osborne: Because as they're driving up and down a dirt road, you get dust on them and that gets in the webbing and actually helps protect them. 333 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:03,140 Lance Osborne: And so you end up having mite outbreaks in those kind of dusty areas. 334 00:36:03,940 --> 00:36:06,100 Lance Osborne: So you need to pay attention to that. 335 00:36:07,860 --> 00:36:09,240 Lance Osborne: Sometimes water will help. 336 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:15,040 Lance Osborne: People have used high-pressure water, and not too high, but can wash them and dislodge them. 337 00:36:15,180 --> 00:36:16,980 Lance Osborne: Try to minimize pet plants. 338 00:36:17,460 --> 00:36:26,320 Lance Osborne: A lot of times in the greenhouse, you'll get somebody that just loves tomatoes or something and they'll bring in a plant and that never gets treated. 339 00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:32,040 Lance Osborne: A lot of times it'll sit there and the pest populations will build up on it. 340 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,700 Lance Osborne: Your sprayer guy may not go in on the aisle and treat the weeds. 341 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:44,660 Lance Osborne: And so you have to make sure that you either pull them or treat them because you can get pest populations developed there. 342 00:36:45,300 --> 00:36:52,260 Lance Osborne: My wife was a professional scout for 30 years at Englemans, and she would walk in and she would just eyeball the nursery. 343 00:36:52,370 --> 00:37:01,220 Lance Osborne: And you could tell places where you're going to have some issues, whether the screening is torn, whether there's pet plants and those types of things. 344 00:37:01,380 --> 00:37:06,000 Lance Osborne: So you just have to pay attention to all the things that could impact your pest population. 345 00:37:07,079 --> 00:37:22,680 Ping Yu: So if, for instance, if, because I know for some other pests, if they have the early infestation, early on you can do like pruning or anything like that to reduce that, especially for woody ornamentals. 346 00:37:23,359 --> 00:37:29,240 Ping Yu: But if, for instance, for hibiscus, would pruning work for the spider mites? 347 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:30,340 Ping Yu: At all? 348 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:32,780 Lance Osborne: They prefer the new growth. 349 00:37:33,260 --> 00:37:37,140 Lance Osborne: And so if you're cutting out all the new growth, that's going to knock the population down. 350 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,920 Lance Osborne: If you make the canopy more open, it's coverage. 351 00:37:40,140 --> 00:37:42,980 Lance Osborne: If you don't get the chemical to the mites, you're not going to kill them. 352 00:37:43,660 --> 00:37:50,560 Lance Osborne: We have a lot of materials that are translaminar in their activity, which goes through the leaf and gets the populations on the bottom. 353 00:37:51,220 --> 00:37:54,140 Lance Osborne: We have some like Kontos that is a systemic. 354 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,560 Lance Osborne: But really, you don't want to count on that. 355 00:37:56,570 --> 00:38:00,960 Lance Osborne: You have to make sure that you get good coverage, high-volume spray. 356 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:02,420 Ping Yu: Yeah. 357 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:07,840 Ping Yu: And you mentioned that they are going to be staying on the bottom of the leaf. 358 00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:13,240 Ping Yu: That would be if, ideally, they can spray the chemical from the bottom of the plant, right? 359 00:38:13,580 --> 00:38:14,420 Ping Yu: Or the leaf. 360 00:38:15,099 --> 00:38:18,859 Lance Osborne: Yeah, I mean, that's why we have some people that are very, very good. 361 00:38:18,930 --> 00:38:21,520 Lance Osborne: They end up building their own nozzles. 362 00:38:22,049 --> 00:38:26,460 Lance Osborne: And they have some that are spraying up and some are spraying down so they get good coverage. 363 00:38:24,450 --> 00:38:24,580 Lance Osborne: Yeah. 364 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:40,599 Ping Yu: Yeah, because that would be if you can treat, because a lot of times if it's just a regular nozzle application and just from like the air spraying, then that would be only covering the canopy that's upside in there. 365 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:50,820 Lance Osborne: You want to make sure that the pressure isn't too high, but you've got to have the pressure high enough to ruffle the leaves and get them to twist and turn so that you do get some of that. 366 00:38:44,750 --> 00:38:44,880 Lance Osborne: Yeah. 367 00:38:51,440 --> 00:39:02,400 Lance Osborne: And we used to have, I haven't seen anybody using it in a while, but the indicator cards that you could stick underneath the leaf that would be sensitive to the sprays and it would turn blue. 368 00:39:02,930 --> 00:39:04,060 Lance Osborne: And you'd be able to tell. 369 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:10,180 Lance Osborne: And growers learned real quick that they thought they were doing a great job, but they weren't. 370 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:23,619 Ping Yu: So you kind of mentioned the indicator card and that made me think about the sticky pad or sticky card, which is pretty common to monitor the population of the pests. 371 00:39:24,220 --> 00:39:32,740 Ping Yu: But are there any—like for people who are going to monitor the population of the sticky—or of the spider mites? 372 00:39:33,220 --> 00:39:38,120 Ping Yu: Do you suggest them to put the sticky card in there? 373 00:39:38,650 --> 00:39:43,020 Ping Yu: Do they have preference in terms of which color of the sticky card that they prefer? 374 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,460 Lance Osborne: They're not going to do you any good, sticky cards. 375 00:39:46,740 --> 00:39:50,160 Lance Osborne: You'll catch more scouts than you will spider mites on them. 376 00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:51,460 Lance Osborne: I wouldn't waste my time. 377 00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:58,319 Lance Osborne: Now, some people will use indicator plants, like I said, putting a bean out in a crop. 378 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,559 Lance Osborne: Something like a bean is just really, really sensitive. 379 00:40:03,279 --> 00:40:04,720 Lance Osborne: It shows damage quicker. 380 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:06,640 Lance Osborne: Mites love beans. 381 00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:10,640 Lance Osborne: We go to Publix and buy a bag of beans, and it works great. 382 00:40:11,980 --> 00:40:15,320 Ping Yu: Beans would be a better indicator than sticky pad. 383 00:40:16,220 --> 00:40:16,320 Lance Osborne: Yeah. 384 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:17,440 Ping Yu: Yeah. 385 00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:27,260 Ping Yu: Because I know you have been in Florida or University of Florida for over 40 years. 386 00:40:28,039 --> 00:40:44,880 Ping Yu: What, now, if you get a young grower or a new grower and ask you to say how to set themselves up for long-term success, what advice would you give to them and why? 387 00:40:46,319 --> 00:40:48,119 Lance Osborne: I'd say they need to be a pain in the ass. 388 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:50,680 Lance Osborne: People are here. 389 00:40:51,279 --> 00:40:52,059 Lance Osborne: We're here to help. 390 00:40:52,779 --> 00:40:53,940 Lance Osborne: We get paid to help. 391 00:40:55,460 --> 00:40:58,020 Lance Osborne: We have a clinic that's open every Tuesday. 392 00:40:58,540 --> 00:41:00,160 Lance Osborne: We don't have enough of them coming in. 393 00:41:00,980 --> 00:41:09,660 Lance Osborne: And we see younger and younger kids bringing the plants in, which is very encouraging, which shows that they're excited, they're interested in new knowledge. 394 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,260 Lance Osborne: And I think that's number one, is to be excited. 395 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,140 Lance Osborne: Seek out the people that can help you. 396 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:35,480 Lance Osborne: Get a relationship with them. Have them understand what you're trying to achieve and that you're excited, you're interested in helping them and cooperating with them. And I think that'll go a long way. We have trained individuals sitting down at our clinic and sometimes nobody ever shows up. 397 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:37,220 Ping Yu: Yeah. 398 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:39,340 Lance Osborne: If nothing else. 399 00:41:39,580 --> 00:41:41,320 Ping Yu: Well, you don't need anybody to wake you up. 400 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,700 Ping Yu: You just wake up every morning and then come to work. 401 00:41:46,860 --> 00:41:49,700 Ping Yu: What about the junior faculty and researchers? 402 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:56,080 Ping Yu: What suggestions would you give to set themselves for a successful career like you did? 403 00:41:57,020 --> 00:42:04,020 Lance Osborne: Well, I think number one is you just have to be inquisitive and curious and open your eyes. 404 00:42:04,980 --> 00:42:10,580 Lance Osborne: Take time to look at what's going on around you and look at the plants and just enjoy yourself. 405 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,000 Lance Osborne: It's getting harder, I can tell you. 406 00:42:14,430 --> 00:42:20,980 Lance Osborne: All the stuff we have to do nowadays, 50% of our job is just stuff to drive us nuts. 407 00:42:21,740 --> 00:42:22,180 Ping Yu: Paperwork. 408 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:39,900 Ping Yu: Yeah. And I guess for junior faculty, well, I am a junior faculty myself, and I think one of the pressure or stress is getting tenure or getting your package built up. I guess for me... 409 00:42:26,650 --> 00:42:26,780 Ping Yu: Paperwork. 410 00:42:39,420 --> 00:43:03,280 Ping Yu: I am looking for people who I can work together with. For entomology, it might be a little bit better, but in general for ornamental, the grant opportunities are very limited. And that's one of the challenges for a lot of junior faculty trying to build a successful career in ornamental in general. 411 00:43:03,660 --> 00:43:06,040 Lance Osborne: That brings me back to something I forgot earlier. 412 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:14,620 Lance Osborne: With the young people and with young faculty is that you have to become part of the industry. 413 00:43:16,180 --> 00:43:21,220 Lance Osborne: What helped me is I used to go to a donut store every morning and I ran into a grower there. 414 00:43:22,660 --> 00:43:25,119 Lance Osborne: The Delphastus is sold all over the world now. 415 00:43:25,119 --> 00:43:26,440 Lance Osborne: It came from his backyard. 416 00:43:27,140 --> 00:43:33,039 Lance Osborne: The fungus that we patented, the PFR-97, Ancora, that came from some plants in his greenhouse. 417 00:43:33,940 --> 00:43:38,000 Lance Osborne: So the industry and really support... 418 00:43:38,020 --> 00:43:45,560 Lance Osborne: the grower organizations, okay, like HRI, FNGLA, become part. 419 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:53,060 Lance Osborne: And if you want to have a long career, then these people are going to be the people you see from now on for the next 40 years. 420 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,300 Lance Osborne: So you might as well make friends with them. 421 00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,900 Lance Osborne: Let them know what kind of person you are. 422 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:07,079 Lance Osborne: Okay, I went to a nursery where the guy, he knew the answers to all the questions, but he wanted to see if I knew them. 423 00:44:07,700 --> 00:44:13,079 Lance Osborne: And you don't BS people in this industry because if they're still in business, they're probably smarter than I am. 424 00:44:07,850 --> 00:44:07,980 Lance Osborne: And— 425 00:44:14,220 --> 00:44:15,980 Ping Yu: No, I totally get it. 426 00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:21,980 Ping Yu: Especially for me, I think right now, a lot of people out there are more knowledgeable than I am. 427 00:44:22,780 --> 00:44:27,500 Ping Yu: A lot of times it makes me nervous to answer a question because I'm like, I don't know if I'm saying it right. 428 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:29,900 Lance Osborne: I agree. 429 00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:31,100 Lance Osborne: You just... 430 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,780 Lance Osborne: find mentors, people that you can... 431 00:44:34,940 --> 00:44:39,860 Lance Osborne: If people can trust you, they're going to look to you to support them, to work with them. 432 00:44:40,660 --> 00:44:41,660 Lance Osborne: We can't do this ourselves. 433 00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:43,760 Lance Osborne: It's just too much going on. 434 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,060 Lance Osborne: I'm setting up field trials right now. 435 00:44:46,060 --> 00:44:48,980 Lance Osborne: I'm trying to find people that want to try some banker plant stuff. 436 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,340 Lance Osborne: And some, they just want to sit in their own little world. 437 00:44:54,180 --> 00:44:55,420 Ping Yu: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 438 00:44:55,900 --> 00:44:58,000 Lance Osborne: You don't have... 439 00:44:58,400 --> 00:44:59,480 Lance Osborne: Money is not the answer. 440 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:05,960 Lance Osborne: You can't throw money at stuff, but it does come easier when people see that they can cooperate with you. 441 00:45:06,380 --> 00:45:16,800 Ping Yu: But what—I know you are a person who gets excited with everything, even after you've been working for 40 years. 442 00:45:17,500 --> 00:45:25,460 Ping Yu: But what is your next excitement for your work, for research, or for your life in general? 443 00:45:26,700 --> 00:45:32,860 Lance Osborne: I know this is going to sound weird, but I'm getting excited about mealybug biocontrol. 444 00:45:34,580 --> 00:45:38,480 Lance Osborne: There's a reason why if I go out, I can't find mealybugs. 445 00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:43,800 Lance Osborne: I'd be up to my eyeballs in mealybugs if there wasn't biocontrol out there somewhere. 446 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:45,060 Lance Osborne: Something's eating them all. 447 00:45:45,819 --> 00:45:59,339 Lance Osborne: Okay, so we're finding, taking plants out, sticking them in the bushes, coming back in a week or so, and if somebody hasn't stole it, we end up with the plant that generally has mealybugs and natural enemies on it. 448 00:46:00,099 --> 00:46:01,740 Lance Osborne: So we're trying to colonize them. 449 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:07,440 Lance Osborne: We've got a little tiny fly that's going nuts on mealybugs that we didn't even know was there. 450 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,400 Lance Osborne: I've got a little tiny ladybug that eats mealybugs. 451 00:46:14,039 --> 00:46:15,640 Lance Osborne: I'm having a hard time growing mealybugs. 452 00:46:14,900 --> 00:46:15,380 Lance Osborne: And... 453 00:46:15,779 --> 00:46:20,740 Ping Yu: Because there are natural enemies somewhere in the greenhouse? 454 00:46:21,599 --> 00:46:21,779 Lance Osborne: Yeah. 455 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,059 Ping Yu: And you didn't even know what it is? 456 00:46:25,580 --> 00:46:26,420 Lance Osborne: I didn't know that. 457 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,980 Lance Osborne: Well, I can't get identifications on some of them. 458 00:46:29,100 --> 00:46:33,580 Lance Osborne: The little fly I dropped off at Gainesville a week or so ago to see if somebody could identify it. 459 00:46:33,590 --> 00:46:40,680 Lance Osborne: We have a parasitoid for a Madeira mealybug that we sent out, and we still haven't gotten an answer on. 460 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:42,380 Lance Osborne: I mean, some of these things are new. 461 00:46:43,420 --> 00:46:48,240 Lance Osborne: And it just took throwing a plant in the bushes and then bring it back into the lab. 462 00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:53,300 Ping Yu: Wow, that's interesting because, I mean, you would think that... 463 00:46:54,080 --> 00:47:06,000 Ping Yu: The whole thing with mealybugs sounds interesting to me because you would think that they're going to stick in there and all of a sudden they're gone because of other existing pests or parasites in there. 464 00:47:07,020 --> 00:47:07,180 Ping Yu: Yeah. 465 00:47:07,300 --> 00:47:07,440 Ping Yu: Yeah. 466 00:47:08,860 --> 00:47:17,500 Ping Yu: Are you still in the phase of sorting out the mealybug and what causes the issue or what are the natural enemies of the mealybugs? 467 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:24,960 Lance Osborne: Well, the enemies we're finding are in a number of different categories. 468 00:47:25,270 --> 00:47:30,200 Lance Osborne: We have predators, we have the fly, and a caterpillar, which is eating them. 469 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,140 Lance Osborne: But unfortunately, they're feeding a little bit on the plants, so we're ruling that one out. 470 00:47:34,300 --> 00:47:35,440 Lance Osborne: We've got ladybugs. 471 00:47:36,060 --> 00:47:52,020 Lance Osborne: Some predatory mites, but I think the ones that are showing the most interest are a parasitoid, the ladybug, and the little fly. We have colonies of all three of them. Wow. And so we're off to the races. 472 00:47:52,599 --> 00:47:56,480 Ping Yu: Yeah, more interesting work is going to be out for mealybugs. 473 00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:01,079 Ping Yu: And hopefully we'll get another episode on mealybugs down the road. 474 00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:05,079 Lance Osborne: My hope is to find a commercial company that's willing to rear them. 475 00:48:05,819 --> 00:48:09,760 Lance Osborne: We do have a banker plant system for the mealybugs. 476 00:48:10,660 --> 00:48:14,480 Lance Osborne: But growers don't want to do that. They want to be able to purchase something and release them. 477 00:48:14,900 --> 00:48:27,000 Ping Yu: Yeah, yeah. So with that in mind, if people want to find more of the information with all the work that you have done, where do you recommend them to go and find more information? 478 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:32,720 Ping Yu: Okay, so we'll just email you and call you in to find more information. 479 00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:37,299 Lance Osborne: Yeah, I can send them some PowerPoints and PDF files of talks I've given. 480 00:48:37,779 --> 00:48:42,140 Lance Osborne: But I need to know the specifics and I can work with them from there. 481 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:50,779 Ping Yu: Yeah, okay. Sounds good. Well, thank you, Lance, for joining me today. 482 00:48:51,020 --> 00:48:51,520 Lance Osborne: My pleasure. 483 00:48:51,819 --> 00:49:15,880 Ping Yu: I have learned a lot with this, but thank you for still being so excited to provide your knowledge to our industry. I think it's really something we need for. And that's why I was like, you are kind of one of the icons in the industry, because you are providing all those services, your knowledge, your skill to the industry so that 484 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:20,240 Lance Osborne: we as a whole can survive together. So thank you. Thank you. 485 00:49:21,339 --> 00:49:36,059 Ping Yu: Besides the resources and information that our guest speaker shared with us today, AFE also has additional resources for mites and other insect pests that can be found on AFE's website at endowment.org. 486 00:49:36,839 --> 00:49:38,839 Ping Yu: I'll put those in the show notes as well. 487 00:49:43,900 --> 00:49:55,260 Ping Yu: This episode in our first season is made possible through an educational grant from the American Floral Endowment, where research priorities helped shape the topics that are featured. 488 00:49:55,849 --> 00:50:05,859 Ping Yu: To learn more about AFE and access their research and educational resources, visit their website at endowment.org. 489 00:50:07,900 --> 00:50:10,760 Ping Yu: Conversation like this only happens when you support the show. 490 00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:17,020 Ping Yu: For more information and find ways to support us, please go to bandbpod.com. 491 00:50:18,660 --> 00:50:19,780 Ping Yu: bandbpod.com. 492 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:25,580 Ping Yu: If you like what you are hearing, spread the word and share this podcast with the people you love. 493 00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:31,160 Ping Yu: Make sure you hit that subscription button and give a review for the podcast. 494 00:50:32,100 --> 00:50:37,660 Ping Yu: And as always, go check out the show notes to learn more about this topic and other things. 495 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:43,040 Ping Yu: Other topics we featured on the show at bandbpod.com. Thank you for listening. 496 00:50:43,300 --> 00:50:46,220 Ping Yu: Till the next time, stay healthy and go plants.