1 00:00:04,139 --> 00:01:03,359 Ping Yu: Hello everyone, welcome to the Blooms and Beyond podcast, a podcast that uncovers plant history, culture, and management through the lens of science. I'm your host, Ping. Today I'm doing great because, again, I have one of my favorite people from Southern Region IPPS and my dear friend Judson LeCompte from Proven Winners. Judson has years of experience in horticulture and he knows both from academia and industry perspective, and of course has one of the dream jobs in the industry as an international plant hunter, and a lot of funny stories behind this over the years. I don't want to steal any more thunder from our speaker today. Let's just jump right into it. Without further ado, here is my conversation with Judson. I hope you enjoy it. Hey, Judson, welcome to the podcast. First of all, let's get started with the introduction. 2 00:01:03,739 --> 00:01:07,479 Ping Yu: Can you tell our audience a little bit about who you are and what you do? 3 00:01:08,939 --> 00:01:11,119 Judson LeCompte: Okay, yes, I'm Dr. Judson LeCompte. 4 00:01:11,500 --> 00:01:17,979 Judson LeCompte: I work at Spring Meadow Nursery as a product development manager, which is basically a plant hunter. 5 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:25,800 Judson LeCompte: I work with all of our external breeders from around the world to bring their genetics into our catalog, into our program. 6 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,620 Judson LeCompte: And then share them around the world and let them beautify the world. 7 00:01:31,220 --> 00:01:36,400 Judson LeCompte: And at Spring Meadow, we are the woody plant provider for Proven Winners. 8 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,920 Judson LeCompte: So Proven Winners Color Choice is the woody side. 9 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,460 Judson LeCompte: And so we do trees, shrubs, and vines. 10 00:01:43,580 --> 00:01:46,140 Judson LeCompte: And we're based here in West Michigan. 11 00:01:46,460 --> 00:01:51,200 Judson LeCompte: So if you can tell from my accent, I'm not from Michigan, originally from Alabama. 12 00:01:52,180 --> 00:01:55,860 Judson LeCompte: But it's a lot of fun. It's currently sleeting outside right now. 13 00:01:56,380 --> 00:02:01,340 Ping Yu: Oh my gosh. In that case, I have to correct myself a little bit because I said that you're from Proven Winners. 14 00:02:01,540 --> 00:02:06,380 Ping Yu: For some reason, I feel like because you always wear Proven Winners brand. 15 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,119 Ping Yu: Socks and jacket and everything. 16 00:02:09,340 --> 00:02:11,120 Judson LeCompte: We are part of Proven Winners. 17 00:02:11,420 --> 00:02:13,620 Judson LeCompte: You know, we each have our own specialty. 18 00:02:13,940 --> 00:02:19,740 Judson LeCompte: So you've got annual providers, you've got bulb providers, you've got us that do shrubs, Walters that does perennials. 19 00:02:19,970 --> 00:02:24,459 Judson LeCompte: So we all have our expertise and we bring it all together and make some beautiful things. 20 00:02:24,900 --> 00:02:42,820 Ping Yu: Oh, that's great. Okay. I am partly right in that regard. But I have known you for years. What first sparked your interest in horticulture in general? Are you a nature kid when you grew up or is this something that stumped you into this trajectory? 21 00:02:43,920 --> 00:02:48,860 Judson LeCompte: Well, I think one thing is I've never grown up, which is a plus for me and my job. 22 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,560 Judson LeCompte: I'm a six-year-old everywhere I go. 23 00:02:51,700 --> 00:02:54,380 Judson LeCompte: I have a lot of fun visiting my breeders and my friends. 24 00:02:55,100 --> 00:02:57,600 Judson LeCompte: But I was introduced to horticulture by my grandmother. 25 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,500 Judson LeCompte: I think it's a similar story for a lot of people. 26 00:03:01,140 --> 00:03:05,360 Judson LeCompte: She was a farmer and a daylily collector and hybridizer. 27 00:03:06,299 --> 00:03:09,439 Judson LeCompte: And so I would walk her gardens with her and look at daylilies. 28 00:03:09,659 --> 00:03:12,680 Judson LeCompte: And I became really interested in horticulture. 29 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:19,560 Judson LeCompte: And I bugged my parents so much that they let me volunteer at a nursery when I was 14. 30 00:03:20,250 --> 00:03:23,400 Judson LeCompte: And I got paid in plants because you couldn't hire me. 31 00:03:23,980 --> 00:03:25,500 Judson LeCompte: But that's where it all started. 32 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:30,640 Judson LeCompte: And I went to school at Auburn University for my bachelor's and master's. 33 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:38,180 Judson LeCompte: And just continued. I love learning, love finding new plants, and so moved to Mississippi and finished 34 00:03:38,180 --> 00:03:59,980 Ping Yu: my PhD there. I know that you have a very deep root in the South, so I guess people can tell the accent. Your southern accent is still there, but I love that how you ended up moving from south to Michigan. But how did you start the role as an international plant hunter 35 00:04:00,030 --> 00:04:20,300 Judson LeCompte: with your current job? So after my PhD, I actually, through IPPS, made a really great connection with Jim Berry. He had a large wholesale nursery in Texas and I interviewed for a job there with him, literally at an IPPS meeting. 36 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,820 Judson LeCompte: And I hadn't even defended my PhD and took a job with him. 37 00:04:25,700 --> 00:04:29,060 Judson LeCompte: So I was doing product development with Jim for almost three years. 38 00:04:30,100 --> 00:04:35,520 Judson LeCompte: And I went to the Southeastern Plant Symposium done by the Raulston Arboretum. 39 00:04:36,260 --> 00:04:43,800 Judson LeCompte: And my former boss, Tim Wood, who was the former product development manager at Spring Meadow, was talking and... 40 00:04:44,180 --> 00:04:47,840 Judson LeCompte: I saw him the next day in the breakfast line and I was like, "Man, your job sounds really cool. 41 00:04:48,289 --> 00:05:01,259 Judson LeCompte: You just get to travel around and talk to people and find new plants." And he said, "Well, I'm getting ready to retire, so you should apply." And so that was in 2019 and I moved here in Michigan in 2020. 42 00:05:01,900 --> 00:05:17,180 Ping Yu: Oh my gosh, that's interesting. I kept telling people, your job is the ideal or dream job in the industry in general, because you got to see all kinds of new plant materials and talk to people from all different places. 43 00:05:17,879 --> 00:05:19,819 Ping Yu: And you get to travel a lot. 44 00:05:20,020 --> 00:05:20,979 Judson LeCompte: I get to travel a lot. 45 00:05:21,139 --> 00:05:24,080 Judson LeCompte: Me and you might think it's the ideal job, but a lot of people don't want to travel. 46 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,460 Judson LeCompte: They find it difficult to speak with people. 47 00:05:26,699 --> 00:05:27,379 Judson LeCompte: They have a family. 48 00:05:28,159 --> 00:05:30,400 Judson LeCompte: And so luckily I'm home almost every weekend. 49 00:05:31,060 --> 00:05:33,520 Judson LeCompte: So I get to spend a lot of time with my family and make it a priority. 50 00:05:34,220 --> 00:05:35,740 Ping Yu: Yeah, I think that you're right. 51 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:40,800 Ping Yu: And some people in our industry, they would be happy to talk to people that they know. 52 00:05:41,340 --> 00:05:46,620 Ping Yu: If you ask them to jump out of their comfort zone, it can be intimidating sometimes. 53 00:05:47,919 --> 00:06:01,620 Judson LeCompte: That's the biggest thing for me. In between my master's and my PhD, I spent a summer in Germany by myself. I didn't speak German. I was doing research for a German university. And you just become uncomfortable. And I'm sure you can... 54 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:03,340 Ping Yu: I can relate to you. 55 00:06:04,199 --> 00:06:11,300 Judson LeCompte: Yeah. You stand out. You look different. You are different. And you can use your charm and your skills to... 56 00:06:11,599 --> 00:06:13,039 Judson LeCompte: help you out and get what you need. 57 00:06:13,500 --> 00:06:19,120 Judson LeCompte: I think being uncomfortable for certainly a young horticulturist is a great thing. 58 00:06:19,819 --> 00:06:20,860 Ping Yu: Yeah, I totally agree. 59 00:06:21,139 --> 00:06:22,800 Ping Yu: And I try to do it myself too. 60 00:06:22,979 --> 00:06:27,599 Ping Yu: Try to step out of the comfort zone often enough so that I can learn new things. 61 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:29,860 Ping Yu: I just push myself a little bit to the edge. 62 00:06:30,639 --> 00:06:31,280 Judson LeCompte: Yep, yep, yep. 63 00:06:31,620 --> 00:06:36,979 Judson LeCompte: And listen, just be ridiculous and have fun and people will love you because of it. 64 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:38,080 Ping Yu: Yes. 65 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:44,460 Ping Yu: I know there's a lot of logistics. 66 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,900 Ping Yu: I would love to learn a little bit more about... 67 00:06:47,919 --> 00:06:57,160 Ping Yu: international travel, especially if you're trying to collect the plant samples back and there's a lot of logistics and paperwork processes that you have to go through. 68 00:06:57,669 --> 00:07:11,660 Ping Yu: Can you tell us a little bit about the preparation and if you're planning for a trip to, I don't know, Japan, what are some of the preparation work that you need to go through before you step into the field? 69 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:17,280 Judson LeCompte: So starting out, the job is a lot of looking for breeders, right? 70 00:07:17,510 --> 00:07:25,360 Judson LeCompte: So using my network that I've built over the years to, I might find a breeder in Japan, but I don't know him. 71 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:26,060 Judson LeCompte: He doesn't know me. 72 00:07:26,060 --> 00:07:35,060 Judson LeCompte: He doesn't speak English, but I have Japanese friends and Japanese colleagues that will go and talk to them or when I come to visit, will tour us around. 73 00:07:35,190 --> 00:07:39,080 Judson LeCompte: So I pretty much have a partner in every country that I travel to. 74 00:07:39,900 --> 00:07:42,260 Judson LeCompte: And so I'll fly out to visit them. 75 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,140 Judson LeCompte: It's so nice now that we have cell phones and Wi-Fi. 76 00:07:46,860 --> 00:07:53,820 Judson LeCompte: And back in the day when Tim was doing this, he would have to write letters and hope that somebody just showed up to pick him up from the airport in Japan. 77 00:07:54,500 --> 00:07:54,940 Ping Yu: Wow. 78 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,500 Judson LeCompte: So now, you know, I can text my... 79 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,040 Judson LeCompte: colleagues in the air. 80 00:08:00,290 --> 00:08:02,400 Judson LeCompte: So when I land, everything's good. 81 00:08:03,010 --> 00:08:06,520 Judson LeCompte: Then we tour around and look for nurseries and look for plants. 82 00:08:06,690 --> 00:08:09,080 Judson LeCompte: So I make a list, a lot of pictures. 83 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,500 Judson LeCompte: And when I get back, you make priorities. 84 00:08:13,810 --> 00:08:17,360 Judson LeCompte: So what's the most important thing to get first? 85 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,200 Judson LeCompte: And then you start getting into the regulations. 86 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:27,520 Judson LeCompte: The USDA has, and APHIS has very strict guidelines for what plants can be brought into the US and this is for good reason. 87 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:34,780 Judson LeCompte: We don't want to introduce a disease or a pest that could impact our food or our ornamental plants. 88 00:08:36,039 --> 00:08:51,820 Judson LeCompte: So there is a great manual online called the Plants for Planting Manual and different websites through the USDA APHIS that you can filter where the plant comes from and what the plant is and tell you all the regulations that you have to have. 89 00:08:52,460 --> 00:08:54,620 Judson LeCompte: And there's basically three main ones. 90 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,740 Judson LeCompte: There's plants that are just fine to bring in. 91 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:01,880 Judson LeCompte: You just need to have a phytosanitary certificate from that country. 92 00:09:03,100 --> 00:09:03,940 Judson LeCompte: And an import permit. 93 00:09:04,740 --> 00:09:13,700 Judson LeCompte: Then there is post-entry quarantine, which is a quarantine site on a nursery or university. 94 00:09:14,460 --> 00:09:17,900 Judson LeCompte: This is kind of like your medium level of things. 95 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:19,620 Judson LeCompte: So this is hydrangeas and roses. 96 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,200 Judson LeCompte: Most of those have to stay two years in that post-entry quarantine. 97 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:26,540 Judson LeCompte: It gets inspected multiple times a year. 98 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:29,480 Judson LeCompte: And those are a little difficult. 99 00:09:29,620 --> 00:09:32,680 Judson LeCompte: The most difficult are the controlled import permits. 100 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:39,420 Judson LeCompte: So this requires you to have a quarantine facility where you collect all runoff water. 101 00:09:40,180 --> 00:09:41,860 Judson LeCompte: It has to be threat screened. 102 00:09:42,399 --> 00:09:43,820 Judson LeCompte: It gets inspected monthly. 103 00:09:44,680 --> 00:09:47,620 Judson LeCompte: All the water has to be treated before it's disposed of. 104 00:09:48,620 --> 00:09:52,980 Judson LeCompte: It takes a lot of investment to build those quarantine facilities. 105 00:09:53,459 --> 00:09:59,959 Judson LeCompte: And so if a nursery doesn't have those capabilities on site, the USDA does provide that program. 106 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:05,500 Judson LeCompte: It's just a little because you're not there able to watch them and check on everything. 107 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:10,579 Judson LeCompte: So once we figure out what the permit is, we contact our breeder. 108 00:10:11,259 --> 00:10:19,899 Judson LeCompte: And a lot of times it's just teaching them how to ship the plants, because shipping plants is a lot easier than people make it out to be. 109 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,060 Judson LeCompte: But we have to follow the steps. 110 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,759 Judson LeCompte: Generally, we import plants through Atlanta. 111 00:10:25,740 --> 00:10:34,740 Judson LeCompte: We have a broker there that will pick up our package from the airlines, take it through customs, get it inspected, and then they will forward it to us. 112 00:10:35,130 --> 00:10:41,620 Judson LeCompte: And so then once it gets to us, it'll either go through a two-year quarantine or it'll go into trial. 113 00:10:42,220 --> 00:10:48,860 Judson LeCompte: And most plants from an external breeder take five to ten years of evaluation before it's introduced. 114 00:10:52,579 --> 00:10:58,519 Ping Yu: So there's a lot of logistics in the whole process just by listening to what you just described. 115 00:10:59,020 --> 00:10:59,740 Ping Yu: But did you get... 116 00:10:59,740 --> 00:11:00,500 Judson LeCompte: And that was very basic. 117 00:11:01,020 --> 00:11:01,460 Ping Yu: I know. 118 00:11:01,590 --> 00:11:14,400 Ping Yu: I was like, besides your personal network, do you get any assistance or partnership from the local botanics or governments or any institutions that you get to know? 119 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:15,000 Judson LeCompte: Yes. 120 00:11:15,260 --> 00:11:18,840 Judson LeCompte: We do have an internal breeding team and we have breeding partners that we work with. 121 00:11:18,950 --> 00:11:26,780 Judson LeCompte: And a lot of times when I'm traveling, they'll be looking for some germplasm, something for them to breed with either seed or a mother plant. 122 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,319 Judson LeCompte: And so we do a lot of trading. 123 00:11:29,810 --> 00:11:37,180 Judson LeCompte: So if the botanic garden needs seed from a native that we have in the US, we'll collect it, send it to them. 124 00:11:37,819 --> 00:11:40,940 Judson LeCompte: We definitely believe in the IPPS motto of seeking and sharing. 125 00:11:41,380 --> 00:11:45,019 Judson LeCompte: And we think that by sharing with our partners, we raise all the tides. 126 00:11:48,509 --> 00:11:59,480 Ping Yu: Yeah, now we're talking about another previous exchange program participant. Oh yes, yeah. So I went to the European exchange and 127 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:06,400 Judson LeCompte: and honestly I still have those contacts to this day and every one of those relationships that you meet is so valuable. 128 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:26,420 Ping Yu: Yeah, yeah, because I can't imagine if you don't have those connections throughout the year, how can you decide, hey, I'm going to South Korea tomorrow and I got one person who will come and pick me up and then just arrange all the things that we wanted to do in there for the next five days. 129 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,380 Judson LeCompte: You also have to return the favor, correct? 130 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:34,540 Judson LeCompte: So when our breeding partners come to visit, we show them everything. 131 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,180 Judson LeCompte: They get to see all of our R&D facilities, our beautiful trial gardens. 132 00:12:39,660 --> 00:12:42,340 Judson LeCompte: And so, yeah, we try to return the favor as much as possible. 133 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,520 Ping Yu: Yeah, that's how you make the work. 134 00:12:44,740 --> 00:12:47,440 Ping Yu: If you don't, then how can they help you out? 135 00:12:47,820 --> 00:13:09,019 Ping Yu: I know that you have been to, I don't know how many times in Asia or how many times in Europe, but what factors go into deciding where to explore for the new genetic materials for your international plant hunting? 136 00:13:10,100 --> 00:13:14,980 Judson LeCompte: So everything in our catalog, I think now we have over 300 and something items. 137 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:17,580 Judson LeCompte: Everything in the catalog needs to be replaced. 138 00:13:18,910 --> 00:13:19,920 Judson LeCompte: There has to be an improvement. 139 00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:22,720 Judson LeCompte: And so every plant can be improved. 140 00:13:23,100 --> 00:13:26,580 Judson LeCompte: It was a good start when we found it, but we want to make it better. 141 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:28,780 Judson LeCompte: And there's no perfect plant. 142 00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:35,280 Judson LeCompte: And so we have our priority lists, what we're lacking, what we need more of, what is selling well. 143 00:13:36,300 --> 00:13:40,660 Judson LeCompte: And so then I'll look at who's breeding those things. 144 00:13:41,060 --> 00:13:49,740 Judson LeCompte: I'll look at a lot of research papers, a lot of social media, and then you can even go down to, okay, where's this plant native to? 145 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:56,940 Judson LeCompte: So Weigela we're going to be looking in Japan, a lot of rhododendrons in China, you know, different things like that. 146 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,640 Judson LeCompte: And then there's certain countries that are just easier to deal with. Certain countries, it's just not worth it almost. 147 00:14:02,860 --> 00:14:04,339 Judson LeCompte: It's just not worth it almost. 148 00:14:05,820 --> 00:14:06,760 Ping Yu: Yeah, I totally get it. 149 00:14:07,540 --> 00:14:11,720 Judson LeCompte: If you don't have a horticulture industry in that area. 150 00:14:12,700 --> 00:14:21,200 Judson LeCompte: So like I've been hunting in Mexico before and Mexico does have some really amazing horticulture, but most of your local nurseries are not. 151 00:14:21,620 --> 00:14:22,800 Judson LeCompte: They're selling the exact same thing. 152 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,240 Judson LeCompte: They're all passing the same plants to each other. 153 00:14:26,709 --> 00:14:30,779 Judson LeCompte: And so there's not a huge amount of diversity within nursery crops. 154 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:37,300 Judson LeCompte: I'm not like some of the plant hunters that'll go climb mountains and get leeches and hike for three weeks. 155 00:14:38,019 --> 00:14:42,640 Judson LeCompte: I'm looking for a breeder or a collector that has already done that hard work. 156 00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:56,899 Ping Yu: Yeah, because I was wondering if you would go through the wild and looking for a plant that has not been cultivated in the nursery settings, because that would be the first step of new plants to be discovered. 157 00:14:57,500 --> 00:14:58,760 Ping Yu: But that's a ton of work. 158 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:25,360 Judson LeCompte: It is. And we do look in the wild for seed and germplasm. We can get some of those wild genetics into an already inbred line. You can get some hybrid vigor. You can do a lot of different things that way. So just think about hydrangea or roses. We've been breeding with the same hydrangeas and same roses for so long where you've from an original population that was collected in China 200 years ago. 159 00:15:25,940 --> 00:15:32,040 Judson LeCompte: And so there's still amazing genetics in the wild that have a trait that we want. 160 00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:34,020 Judson LeCompte: And so we do a little bit of that. 161 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:56,680 Ping Yu: Yeah, because I grew up in China and I know how many new plants sitting in the mountains that looking for people to come and just discover them. But I think it'll take I don't know how many years for them to even get close to maybe 10% of those wonderful plants that can be cultivated and can be used in the nursery settings. 162 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:12,480 Ping Yu: But speaking of the traits, right now we are dealing with a lot of challenges, especially the climate resilience and people looking for plants that have resistance to certain diseases like drought tolerance and all that. 163 00:16:13,180 --> 00:16:21,500 Ping Yu: What are the specific traits or characteristics that you guys are looking for in terms of your plant hunting and your breeding program? 164 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:29,100 Judson LeCompte: I think it's important to know exactly what the industry already is doing, what is already in the industry. 165 00:16:29,980 --> 00:16:34,920 Judson LeCompte: When I was in undergrad at Auburn, I managed a Home Depot garden center. 166 00:16:36,060 --> 00:16:39,040 Judson LeCompte: And I knew every single plant that I brought in. 167 00:16:39,420 --> 00:16:46,120 Judson LeCompte: And so by learning all those plants and experiencing those plants and seeing what your competitors are doing, you know. 168 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:51,480 Judson LeCompte: where the good plants are and what those plants need to have improved on them. 169 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:57,180 Judson LeCompte: But basic characteristics we look for, consumer appeal, consumer performance. 170 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,120 Judson LeCompte: The industry as a whole internationally is going to smaller plants. 171 00:17:02,740 --> 00:17:04,220 Judson LeCompte: It's for a few different factors. 172 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,760 Judson LeCompte: Generally, our gardens are getting smaller, but small plants also take up less footprint in the nursery. 173 00:17:10,010 --> 00:17:12,819 Judson LeCompte: They take up less air on a truck. 174 00:17:13,189 --> 00:17:15,539 Judson LeCompte: We need to have environmentally friendly. 175 00:17:15,990 --> 00:17:23,720 Judson LeCompte: So this is going to be including with drought tolerance, disease resistance, insect resistance. 176 00:17:23,829 --> 00:17:29,280 Judson LeCompte: So we can combine those to where, again, the consumer has to put in less inputs, just a hardier plant. 177 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:32,160 Judson LeCompte: And then newer unique uses. 178 00:17:33,220 --> 00:17:35,180 Judson LeCompte: We really like foliage color. 179 00:17:36,500 --> 00:17:39,700 Judson LeCompte: So we are Proven Winners Color Choice Flowering Shrubs. 180 00:17:39,940 --> 00:17:44,900 Judson LeCompte: We do sell things that don't flower or that don't have a very noticeable flower. 181 00:17:45,620 --> 00:17:48,140 Judson LeCompte: And a lot of shrubs flower for a short period of time. 182 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,560 Judson LeCompte: And so if we can play with foliage color, it changes throughout the year. 183 00:17:52,940 --> 00:17:53,940 Judson LeCompte: That gives a lot of interest. 184 00:17:55,380 --> 00:18:03,700 Judson LeCompte: And then you're also looking for plants that are looking good in spring and summer when people are shopping. 185 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:05,160 Judson LeCompte: It's very important. 186 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:12,100 Judson LeCompte: We always talk about fall color and I love fall color and I tout the plants that have fall color, but... 187 00:18:12,620 --> 00:18:16,120 Judson LeCompte: In the fall, nobody's looking for anything other than a mum or a pumpkin. 188 00:18:16,690 --> 00:18:17,740 Judson LeCompte: A lot of different characteristics. 189 00:18:18,380 --> 00:18:19,760 Judson LeCompte: Edibles are big right now. 190 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,940 Judson LeCompte: And so we're looking for good tasting edibles. 191 00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:25,020 Judson LeCompte: We don't want just a compact plant. 192 00:18:25,049 --> 00:18:26,059 Judson LeCompte: It's got to taste good. 193 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:31,820 Judson LeCompte: And then ultimately, we want to have the best in class for every single plant that we offer. 194 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,400 Judson LeCompte: So if it's hydrangea, I want to have the best hydrangea. 195 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,000 Judson LeCompte: If it's roses, I want to have the best rose. 196 00:18:37,960 --> 00:19:43,700 Ping Yu: I can tell in terms of the smaller plants, I think with the population growing quickly down the road, people would have compact apartments where they don't have a whole lot of backyard or front yard to put big plants out there so all they need to do is to grab those little tiny plants in their balcony or inside your house so that they can at least have some taste of the plants instead of going to the backyard and having the big plants growing out there they just don't have the space in general. Speaking of that, I know that you work with so many different breeders and every breeder I would say they have their own taste of breeding their own characteristic or their own plants. But are there any traits or characteristics of a plant that breeders commonly overlook but can be found in the wild relatives or that you think would be... 197 00:19:44,620 --> 00:20:03,200 Ping Yu: more preferred by the consumers because in terms of breeding, especially the research perspective, people would like, oh, I like this. I can spend another five years to improve one specific characteristic. But at the end of the day, the consumer may not like that. 198 00:20:03,950 --> 00:20:07,899 Ping Yu: So are there any thoughts or insights that you can share from that perspective? 199 00:20:09,060 --> 00:20:27,480 Judson LeCompte: So right now we're working with over 75 external breeders. And so they range from backyard hobbyists, backyard collectors to super proficient university breeders like Tom Ranney from North Carolina State University. 200 00:20:28,419 --> 00:20:38,940 Judson LeCompte: What I find a lot of times is you have people that have the idea, have the goal of one characteristic, but then they forget the rest of them. 201 00:20:40,139 --> 00:20:48,860 Judson LeCompte: And so you're breeding for this one flower type, and you just keep breeding for that one flower type, but the plant looks terrible. 202 00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:53,100 Judson LeCompte: And so the plant has to be marketable along with the flower. 203 00:20:53,710 --> 00:20:57,100 Judson LeCompte: And then a lot of times... 204 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,480 Judson LeCompte: They're academics that don't know a lot about production. 205 00:21:01,620 --> 00:21:12,160 Judson LeCompte: They know how to do the cross and they understand the science behind the cross, but they don't have the practical knowledge to know what's a good plant or be marketable. 206 00:21:12,919 --> 00:21:15,500 Judson LeCompte: And a lot of it is just experience. 207 00:21:16,419 --> 00:21:28,120 Judson LeCompte: And you may go into a person's backyard and the plant's overgrown or laying over and you have to be able to decide, OK, if this was in a normal production scheme, would this plant look right? 208 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:31,300 Judson LeCompte: And so there's a little bit of that. 209 00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:34,100 Judson LeCompte: And then China's nice. 210 00:21:34,420 --> 00:21:41,680 Judson LeCompte: I like China because for the faculty members to get a plant patent, that's what they need to get promoted. 211 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,000 Judson LeCompte: And so their goal is to get a plant patent. 212 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:45,960 Judson LeCompte: They don't care if they sell a single one. 213 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:51,700 Judson LeCompte: And so you've got really amazing breeders that are doing awesome science. 214 00:21:52,260 --> 00:21:56,580 Judson LeCompte: And then I get to go in and be like, look at all this cool stuff that you've got that you didn't even know you had. 215 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,020 Judson LeCompte: And so that's a lot of fun for me. 216 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:06,280 Judson LeCompte: And it's fun seeing, I think, for the breeders to see me get excited about something that they've overlooked or haven't thought about. 217 00:22:07,180 --> 00:22:12,980 Judson LeCompte: But it does take some delicate communication sometimes because this is... 218 00:22:13,620 --> 00:22:15,500 Judson LeCompte: that breeder's life work. 219 00:22:16,220 --> 00:22:25,240 Judson LeCompte: And it is a privilege to have a plant trial with Spring Meadow and Proven Winners, but you also have to be delicate with them because that is their hard work. 220 00:22:27,780 --> 00:22:34,180 Ping Yu: Yeah, I guess you are the bridge to connect both academia with the breeder and industry. 221 00:22:34,500 --> 00:22:38,140 Ping Yu: That's why your job, your staff is so unique in that regard. 222 00:22:38,580 --> 00:22:41,040 Ping Yu: How can you bridge the gap between those two? 223 00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:43,060 Ping Yu: And can you give us an example? 224 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:51,880 Judson LeCompte: Well, I'm not going to name any names, but I've had some young faculty that are new breeders have just come into a position. 225 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:57,440 Judson LeCompte: And because I've been on the university side, I know what they need to get promoted, right? 226 00:22:57,510 --> 00:23:16,899 Judson LeCompte: So they've got to have short-, medium-, and long-term goals to do their package. And so I can help them with that, making sure that the priorities that they're working on will deliver that. And so hopefully it's not just to make them a better researcher, make them a better breeder, and then that way we can continue to get plants from them. 227 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:28,480 Judson LeCompte: So there's a lot of educating that way. But the biggest thing is to go to a garden center and get uncomfortable and talk to people and ask them why they have those plants in that basket. 228 00:23:29,780 --> 00:23:39,020 Judson LeCompte: So go to whatever local grower and see the person pushing around a cart full of plants and ask them why they selected them. 229 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,539 Judson LeCompte: Look at what's on end caps. 230 00:23:41,860 --> 00:23:49,419 Judson LeCompte: So the ends of aisles in a nursery, because to that garden center, that's cream of the crop. 231 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,660 Judson LeCompte: That's the prime, because that's where they want to sell the most. 232 00:23:53,140 --> 00:23:55,000 Judson LeCompte: And so you look at the stuff that's on end caps. 233 00:23:55,179 --> 00:23:56,299 Judson LeCompte: That's what gets people excited. 234 00:23:56,900 --> 00:23:59,360 Judson LeCompte: And, you know, this is a lot of stuff that I learned at Home Depot. 235 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:10,640 Judson LeCompte: So even if it's just, you want a part-time job in the summer, go work at a garden center. And they always need help in the spring, temporary help. 236 00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:14,540 Judson LeCompte: And you will learn very quickly what people are drawn to. 237 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:15,520 Ping Yu: Yeah. 238 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,700 Ping Yu: Here is another curiosity of my own. 239 00:24:19,060 --> 00:24:20,600 Ping Yu: It's for breeders. 240 00:24:20,750 --> 00:24:25,860 Ping Yu: I know a lot of breeders, and I also love to learn more about plants. 241 00:24:26,380 --> 00:24:49,720 Ping Yu: When we talk about research, when we talk about plants and the industry or the market, those two does not always cross over because sometimes you would have one plant that you love so much, but they're not a popular plant in the market. 242 00:24:49,930 --> 00:24:52,220 Ping Yu: So how do breeders balance 243 00:24:53,040 --> 00:25:04,580 Ping Yu: the excitement of discovering whatever the new plant is and the popularity of certain plants and match the trend where the market needs. 244 00:25:06,140 --> 00:25:07,520 Judson LeCompte: So, yes, it's very difficult. 245 00:25:08,140 --> 00:25:15,340 Judson LeCompte: A lot of plants, certainly if it's a new genus that we've never worked with before, never had in the catalog, sometimes you just let the market decide. 246 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:22,940 Judson LeCompte: But I will say that our program is a little different than some of our competitors in the industry. 247 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,040 Judson LeCompte: When we sell a plant, we collect a breeder fee. 248 00:25:26,260 --> 00:25:27,400 Judson LeCompte: So that goes to the breeder. 249 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,160 Judson LeCompte: And then we also collect a marketing fee. 250 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:35,940 Judson LeCompte: Each plant within the catalog, as it sells, builds a marketing budget. 251 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:47,900 Judson LeCompte: And so we are now able to take those marketing dollars that is passed from the consumer to the grower to us, and then we remarket the plant. 252 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,760 Judson LeCompte: And so that drives the demand. 253 00:25:51,780 --> 00:25:54,000 Judson LeCompte: And our growers... 254 00:25:54,620 --> 00:25:57,380 Judson LeCompte: So for those that don't know, we only grow small plants. 255 00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,460 Judson LeCompte: A quart is the largest that we grow. 256 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,500 Judson LeCompte: And so we sell that to other growers across the country and the world. 257 00:26:04,060 --> 00:26:08,340 Judson LeCompte: And because of our marketing, those growers don't have to have a marketing department. 258 00:26:09,300 --> 00:26:14,680 Judson LeCompte: So they're able to save money on site in their own employee role. 259 00:26:15,500 --> 00:26:17,900 Judson LeCompte: And we can do... 260 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:23,920 Judson LeCompte: national campaigns and international campaigns that most breeders would never have access to. 261 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:31,900 Ping Yu: Well, I guess when you put the plant out there in the market, you would get the number of how much you sell, right? 262 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,040 Ping Yu: And that's how the popularity of certain plants. 263 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:56,440 Judson LeCompte: Yeah, so we have our internal data. I would say one of the best hires that we've had in the past few years is a data analyst. And so he works in all facets of the company, either from production to sales to even R&D. There are some marketing surveys that come out that... 264 00:26:56,580 --> 00:27:04,460 Judson LeCompte: tell what people are excited about, but generally it's higher level, like edibles are popular or green plants are popular, things like that. 265 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:06,500 Judson LeCompte: It's really hard to tell. 266 00:27:06,940 --> 00:27:17,760 Judson LeCompte: We have our classics that always sell well, but ultimately if you've got a plant that solves a problem for someone, then it's going to have good success. 267 00:27:19,340 --> 00:27:29,400 Judson LeCompte: So whether that's deer or boxwood blight or something else, if you can solve that problem for people with your plant, then you'll be successful. 268 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,460 Ping Yu: Yeah, people are constantly looking for new plants. 269 00:27:33,779 --> 00:27:37,460 Ping Yu: I guess sometimes I think it's a win-win situation for people. 270 00:27:37,639 --> 00:27:39,260 Ping Yu: They were like, oh, we got a big problem. 271 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,080 Ping Yu: For instance, the boxwood blight. 272 00:27:41,559 --> 00:27:44,080 Ping Yu: And then for other people, like, oh, this is a great opportunity. 273 00:27:43,850 --> 00:27:44,040 Ping Yu: Yeah. 274 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:50,179 Ping Yu: If we can come up with a boxwood blight resistant cultivar, it'll survive. 275 00:27:50,500 --> 00:27:52,159 Ping Yu: So it's always like that. 276 00:27:52,940 --> 00:27:56,000 Judson LeCompte: And that's the fine balance between academia and industry too, correct? 277 00:27:56,279 --> 00:27:59,820 Judson LeCompte: So if you have a problem, you need to get funding for it. 278 00:28:00,269 --> 00:28:04,279 Judson LeCompte: And so you need to make the problem seem like a very big problem. 279 00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:05,220 Ping Yu: Significant. 280 00:28:05,610 --> 00:28:08,840 Judson LeCompte: And so then us on the other end, we're like, okay, this is manageable. 281 00:28:09,380 --> 00:28:10,340 Judson LeCompte: It's a fine line. 282 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,240 Judson LeCompte: of getting people scared or, you know, this is a real problem. 283 00:28:14,519 --> 00:28:15,700 Ping Yu: Yeah, and make it manageable. 284 00:28:16,179 --> 00:28:17,799 Ping Yu: That's, I guess... 285 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:30,580 Ping Yu: Even from Tim to you, your job has changed tremendously because of the advance of the technology, but also the international trade. 286 00:28:30,919 --> 00:28:39,000 Ping Yu: With the international plant collection, are there any challenges that you can think of right now that's different from before? 287 00:28:40,180 --> 00:28:43,880 Judson LeCompte: The biggest things are the little things for me. 288 00:28:44,220 --> 00:28:47,340 Judson LeCompte: So food, which I will eat anything. 289 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,560 Judson LeCompte: I love food. 290 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,260 Judson LeCompte: I'm an adventurous eater. 291 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,060 Judson LeCompte: Sometimes there's some interesting things. 292 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:56,820 Judson LeCompte: China always throws a curveball for me. 293 00:28:56,900 --> 00:29:00,020 Judson LeCompte: I think they purposefully try to get me to eat weird stuff. 294 00:29:00,780 --> 00:29:02,940 Judson LeCompte: Yeah, this last time I had to draw the line at horse sushi. 295 00:29:03,340 --> 00:29:04,680 Judson LeCompte: It was not happening. 296 00:29:06,020 --> 00:29:11,240 Judson LeCompte: And but hotels, bathrooms, they're just different, you know. 297 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,960 Judson LeCompte: And so after a couple of weeks, you're just really ready to be home. 298 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,420 Judson LeCompte: But for the most part, travel is much easier. 299 00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:23,300 Judson LeCompte: I can book a flight on my phone. 300 00:29:24,060 --> 00:29:24,440 Judson LeCompte: I can 301 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,920 Judson LeCompte: be very, very flexible where before you would just have to come back. 302 00:29:29,740 --> 00:29:33,320 Judson LeCompte: Because when you show up to a breeder, they'll go, oh, well, do you know so-and-so? 303 00:29:33,420 --> 00:29:35,040 Judson LeCompte: Or do you know this person or that person? 304 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:35,900 Judson LeCompte: You should go visit them. 305 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:37,140 Ping Yu: Yeah. 306 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:43,500 Ping Yu: So when you were talking the whole thing, I was laughing along the way because I feel like it's more like a culture thing. 307 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:51,360 Ping Yu: If you go to a new different place, you get to know the people, the culture that you're not exposed to before. 308 00:29:51,980 --> 00:29:57,039 Ping Yu: And each place, every people has their certain way of doing a certain thing. 309 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:04,019 Ping Yu: And for food, I have heard, I don't know how many people who have been to China or has to be other places. 310 00:30:04,519 --> 00:30:08,679 Ping Yu: Not complaining, but saying, oh, they have tried so many different new food. 311 00:30:08,679 --> 00:30:09,559 Ping Yu: I'm like, oh. 312 00:30:09,380 --> 00:30:09,700 Judson LeCompte: What? 313 00:30:10,039 --> 00:30:11,419 Judson LeCompte: I love going to China. 314 00:30:12,159 --> 00:30:15,039 Judson LeCompte: I worked for a Chinese lab during my PhD. 315 00:30:15,899 --> 00:30:25,440 Judson LeCompte: And one of the things I always do when I travel is as soon as I get back from a trip, I try to recreate my favorite dishes from that place. 316 00:30:26,059 --> 00:30:30,740 Judson LeCompte: And so I get the recipes or I'll buy an English cookbook when I'm in that country. 317 00:30:31,340 --> 00:30:40,740 Judson LeCompte: And then I come home and have the ingredients shipped to me and learn how to make it so that taste is still fresh on my mind. I can learn how to do it. I can do a lot of Chinese food. 318 00:30:42,139 --> 00:30:47,360 Ping Yu: I love Chinese food. I did not know that you can cook Chinese food. That's a new information for me. 319 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:55,559 Ping Yu: I'm not a good cook, I guess, per se, but it depends. Sometimes I can make some good dishes. 320 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,120 Ping Yu: Depending on the mood. 321 00:30:59,220 --> 00:30:59,340 Judson LeCompte: Yep. 322 00:31:00,060 --> 00:31:12,120 Judson LeCompte: A lot of times I'll sneak into hotel room kitchens because, again, I'm the one white guy there and I can be excited and be like, "Can you show me?" And they don't speak English, so they just let me. 323 00:31:12,260 --> 00:31:13,460 Judson LeCompte: I get to watch people cook. 324 00:31:13,940 --> 00:31:24,100 Ping Yu: Yeah, you got all those privileges of other people that can't because if you go to a place you would be the unicorn among the population. 325 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,160 Ping Yu: They're gonna treat you differently no matter what. 326 00:31:25,980 --> 00:31:26,380 Ping Yu: Where... 327 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,140 Judson LeCompte: It is nice. It is a fun time. 328 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:41,580 Ping Yu: Yeah. I don't know how many plants that you have collected over the years since you started with your job, but can you share one of the most interesting stories of the plant? 329 00:31:50,740 --> 00:31:53,340 Judson LeCompte: Let's see. That's a very good question, Ping. 330 00:31:53,740 --> 00:31:58,419 Judson LeCompte: I heard a rumor of a plant that was different. 331 00:31:59,299 --> 00:32:21,240 Judson LeCompte: And so literally that weekend, after I heard the rumor, that next day, I got on Facebook and found me a guide in this remote place and booked my flight and scheduled four days to go and was able to find the seed in an hour. 332 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,420 Judson LeCompte: And so I got to explore a little bit more while I was down there, but that's a fun one. 333 00:32:27,420 --> 00:32:27,920 Judson LeCompte: Let's see what else. 334 00:32:28,380 --> 00:32:32,040 Judson LeCompte: Japan is always nice to go visit there. 335 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:40,600 Judson LeCompte: When I was working with J. Berry Nursery, there was a, I knew of the Proven Winners loropetalum. 336 00:32:41,060 --> 00:32:41,660 Judson LeCompte: They were good. 337 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,840 Judson LeCompte: I had evaluated them in Texas. 338 00:32:43,980 --> 00:32:47,980 Judson LeCompte: I liked them and I wanted them for our in-house brand. 339 00:32:48,780 --> 00:32:53,600 Judson LeCompte: And so I had Japanese friends that would go and stalk the breeder, Mr. Suzuki. 340 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,720 Judson LeCompte: Because Spring Meadow, we advertise who our breeders are. 341 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:03,140 Judson LeCompte: We're so proud of our breeders and know that our relationship is close that we tell you exactly who they are. 342 00:33:04,139 --> 00:33:06,360 Judson LeCompte: And so I would message him. 343 00:33:06,419 --> 00:33:10,700 Judson LeCompte: I would drive past his house on Google Maps just to see what I could see. 344 00:33:12,059 --> 00:33:15,360 Judson LeCompte: And every time he'd say, no, no, no, no, I only work with Proven Winners. 345 00:33:16,179 --> 00:33:26,360 Judson LeCompte: And so in 2021, once we were able to start traveling again, I got to go and select plants from him and sit down and have tea with him. 346 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,399 Judson LeCompte: And it was just a... 347 00:33:30,220 --> 00:33:35,940 Judson LeCompte: an awesome moment for me because these people are my rock stars. So I'm really just a talent scout. 348 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:41,340 Judson LeCompte: So my job is to make breeders successful. And if they're successful, then they keep bringing us 349 00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:58,300 Ping Yu: plants. Yeah, I totally get it. I don't know how many breeders that you work closely throughout the whole world. And you always, every place you go, you have a specific collaborator that can work with you and also plan all those fun trips with you. 350 00:33:59,620 --> 00:34:06,520 Judson LeCompte: Well, for them it's fun too. It's what I enjoy to do. So I am fortunate that I found a job that does allow me to do that. 351 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:21,359 Ping Yu: Yeah, there's a lot of new tools coming into the breeding perspective, the molecular tools that people would never thought about 10 years ago or 20 years ago. 352 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:36,099 Ping Yu: What innovations do you say that shapes the future of the germplasm characteristics and how those, for instance, the molecular tools help with the breeding and bringing new plant materials? 353 00:34:39,379 --> 00:34:58,119 Judson LeCompte: So genetic engineering, we can, multiple different methods that we can go about changing a gene within a plant. And I think for a specific problem, it is very important, right? So... 354 00:34:45,379 --> 00:34:46,179 Judson LeCompte: So... 355 00:34:55,020 --> 00:35:00,400 Judson LeCompte: salt tolerance or disease resistance, things like that. 356 00:35:01,340 --> 00:35:11,200 Judson LeCompte: What I worry about is that by the time we get so advanced in our breeding, we don't again know what a good plant is. 357 00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:19,680 Judson LeCompte: We devalue another breeder's methodology, because it is not as advanced. 358 00:35:20,940 --> 00:35:31,220 Judson LeCompte: Where plant breeding can be going and collecting seed and sowing them out in a field and then coming through and picking the best ones and getting rid of the worst ones. 359 00:35:31,359 --> 00:35:32,819 Judson LeCompte: It's traditionally how it's always been. 360 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,300 Judson LeCompte: And there is value in that as well. 361 00:35:37,590 --> 00:35:46,060 Judson LeCompte: And so I highly believe that advanced breeding techniques are gonna be a benefit for our industry. 362 00:35:46,940 --> 00:35:58,160 Judson LeCompte: I just do not want us to forget the classical way that we got here and not let us get too smart that we forget the easy parts. 363 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:12,500 Ping Yu: Yeah, so I think it's more like a combination because that's my take on the breeding part is a combination of the traditional breeding ways and advanced technology in breeding. 364 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:24,380 Ping Yu: Because like you said, if we only have the advanced one, if we only look at those technologies or tools, we're probably going to forget about how to actually grow plants. 365 00:36:25,660 --> 00:36:44,140 Judson LeCompte: And then if you think about it, it's all about scale, too. Right. So there may only be a few million roses sold in the U.S., but there's a few million bushels of I don't know how many of soybeans. And so the scale of that makes that advanced breeding bigger. 366 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:28,780 Judson LeCompte: Yeah. 367 00:36:44,300 --> 00:36:46,700 Judson LeCompte: Fiscally responsible. It makes sense to do that. 368 00:36:47,150 --> 00:36:51,800 Judson LeCompte: It is a lot of times for the crops that we do economically, it just does not make sense. 369 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:58,460 Ping Yu: Yeah, yeah. How many places have you gone to over the like six, eight years? 370 00:36:58,510 --> 00:37:09,160 Judson LeCompte: Let's see. China, Japan, Germany, Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Mexico, Costa Rica, Honduras, Canada. 371 00:37:10,780 --> 00:37:12,980 Judson LeCompte: 11 or 12 different countries. 372 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,720 Ping Yu: Where do you have the most culture shock? 373 00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:23,800 Judson LeCompte: I've gotten so used to it, but I think China would have been my biggest culture shock. 374 00:37:24,820 --> 00:37:27,420 Judson LeCompte: But 15 years ago, China was so much more different. 375 00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:32,860 Judson LeCompte: It has changed so much in 15 years, even in the past three years. 376 00:37:33,010 --> 00:37:40,300 Judson LeCompte: Now, there's a high-speed rail that's going to go from Shanghai to Hangzhou, which would save me a lot of time when I go visit. 377 00:37:40,820 --> 00:37:42,180 Judson LeCompte: And they just threw it up. There it is. 378 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:47,040 Judson LeCompte: And so it is interesting to see how much China has changed. 379 00:37:47,230 --> 00:37:48,800 Judson LeCompte: When I first got there, there was... 380 00:37:49,220 --> 00:37:55,260 Judson LeCompte: You know, air conditioning was a struggle sometimes and hygiene's just improved a lot. 381 00:37:55,720 --> 00:37:56,840 Judson LeCompte: And so it's easy. 382 00:37:57,340 --> 00:37:59,700 Judson LeCompte: The high-speed rail is good. 383 00:38:01,460 --> 00:38:04,660 Judson LeCompte: I have no complaints about really anywhere I travel. 384 00:38:05,220 --> 00:38:07,900 Judson LeCompte: Again, you got to be able to get uncomfortable and... 385 00:38:08,119 --> 00:38:10,819 Judson LeCompte: If it's good enough for the local people there, it's good enough for me. 386 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:12,520 Ping Yu: Yeah, you're right. 387 00:38:12,940 --> 00:38:24,500 Ping Yu: I got to tell you, Judson, you probably are more familiar with the current China than I am because I haven't been back in, oh gosh, almost six, seven years. 388 00:38:24,740 --> 00:38:27,420 Ping Yu: And you basically go back to China every year. 389 00:38:27,619 --> 00:38:32,299 Ping Yu: And I was like, oh my gosh, and Judson would be more Chinese than I am. 390 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,779 Judson LeCompte: No, I mean, I've got great, great friends in China. 391 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:43,620 Judson LeCompte: One of the great things about China is when the continents were together, we were right next to China. 392 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:37,880 Judson LeCompte: There's... 393 00:38:44,210 --> 00:38:51,320 Judson LeCompte: And so if you look at the plants that are in China and that are in the U.S., they're basically the same. 394 00:38:51,710 --> 00:38:54,020 Judson LeCompte: They just evolved differently over time. 395 00:38:54,490 --> 00:38:58,260 Judson LeCompte: And so you get plants that you're already familiar with. 396 00:38:58,980 --> 00:39:02,340 Judson LeCompte: or you get plants that you can hybridize with and do super cool things. 397 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,660 Judson LeCompte: So that's why I like going to China so much. 398 00:39:04,810 --> 00:39:05,540 Judson LeCompte: It reminds me of home. 399 00:39:06,020 --> 00:39:08,700 Ping Yu: Yeah, and also the food and the special treatment. 400 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:09,720 Ping Yu: Yes. 401 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:15,780 Ping Yu: You have been to, let's say, 11, 12 countries so far. 402 00:39:16,140 --> 00:39:26,120 Ping Yu: With all those places that you have been to, what regions or areas hold the greatest untapped potential for future breeding efforts? 403 00:39:28,340 --> 00:39:29,320 Judson LeCompte: Europe is fun. 404 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:30,540 Judson LeCompte: Well, and Asia. 405 00:39:31,740 --> 00:39:35,060 Judson LeCompte: So human nature, we like things that we can't have. 406 00:39:36,370 --> 00:39:42,960 Judson LeCompte: And so Europe and Asia would see plants native to the U.S. and be like, wow, those are cool. 407 00:39:42,990 --> 00:39:44,440 Judson LeCompte: I've never seen anything like that. 408 00:39:44,930 --> 00:39:50,760 Judson LeCompte: Whereas in the U.S., we look to Asia and Europe and Africa, other places, and I'm like, man, that plant's cool. I've never seen anything like that. 409 00:39:50,770 --> 00:39:57,060 Judson LeCompte: So it's interesting to us where we've got natives surrounding us that are not of interest because they're just wild. 410 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:04,380 Judson LeCompte: And so it's interesting to me to go to Europe and Asia and see our native plants that they've continued to breed with. 411 00:40:05,079 --> 00:40:08,960 Judson LeCompte: And so you can a lot of times find improvements that way. 412 00:40:10,380 --> 00:40:12,480 Judson LeCompte: I'm most excited right now about roses. 413 00:40:13,220 --> 00:40:18,660 Judson LeCompte: Rose breeding has traditionally been funneled through major rose houses in Europe. 414 00:40:19,099 --> 00:40:27,099 Judson LeCompte: Yeah. And those European rose houses, when they would have a new plant, they would come to the U.S. and say, OK, I want to make the most amount of money possible. 415 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,680 Judson LeCompte: And I need to get this rose to the biggest nursery there is. 416 00:40:34,539 --> 00:40:39,900 Judson LeCompte: And so back in the day, that would be Conard-Pyle, which is now Star Roses, or Monrovia. 417 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,619 Judson LeCompte: So if you got your rose in Monrovia, it was good. 418 00:40:42,799 --> 00:40:47,880 Judson LeCompte: The only problem is only Monrovia could grow it or only Conard-Pyle could grow it. 419 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:57,020 Judson LeCompte: And so they built these long-term relationships over decades that basically give them exclusivity. 420 00:40:57,099 --> 00:41:00,480 Judson LeCompte: So it really put us at a disadvantage when finding roses. 421 00:41:01,720 --> 00:41:06,760 Judson LeCompte: Fortunately, we've partnered with a company out of the Netherlands and Serbia called Pheno Geno Roses. 422 00:41:07,740 --> 00:41:33,520 Judson LeCompte: They're a great breeding team. Four PhD ladies in Serbia doing a ton of amazing work. We've got Chris Warner from the UK and now a new breeder from Japan. Incorporating all of those together and then finding new characteristics in roses. Edible roses. We've always known we could eat roses, but as someone who's tried a lot of roses, a lot of them don't taste good. 423 00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:37,540 Judson LeCompte: Now we have the Flavor Line of roses. 424 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:38,800 Judson LeCompte: So you can use them as garnish. 425 00:41:38,980 --> 00:41:40,240 Judson LeCompte: You can use them in your food. 426 00:41:40,980 --> 00:41:44,740 Judson LeCompte: So looking at all the different formats that we can that way. 427 00:41:44,859 --> 00:41:51,940 Judson LeCompte: And I always said I would never grow roses because I managed the Veterans Memorial Rose Garden at Mississippi State University. 428 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,100 Judson LeCompte: and I had so many thorns in my hands. 429 00:41:55,530 --> 00:41:59,460 Judson LeCompte: I was like, "I never want to deal with another rose." But I can't get rid of them. I love them. 430 00:41:59,860 --> 00:42:00,180 Ping Yu: Yeah, but one of the things that I know that for roses in Georgia, 431 00:42:04,290 --> 00:42:09,900 Ping Yu: we are, a lot of growers stopped growing them because of the rose rosette. 432 00:42:10,900 --> 00:42:15,380 Ping Yu: Are you guys also in that line to develop rose rosette resistance? 433 00:42:15,620 --> 00:42:19,240 Judson LeCompte: We are partners with a few different programs that are working on that problem. 434 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,640 Judson LeCompte: And again, rose rosette has been a problem that we've known about for a very long time. 435 00:42:24,060 --> 00:42:33,380 Judson LeCompte: And it really only came to be an issue with the advent of, I'm not even going to call out the rose, a very popular rose in the early 2000s. 436 00:42:34,140 --> 00:42:36,119 Judson LeCompte: took the place of color annual beds. 437 00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:43,079 Judson LeCompte: And so basically you just made a roadway for the little mite to blow down and transfer this disease. 438 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:51,260 Judson LeCompte: And we are finding out some really interesting things about the disease and about how the virus moves within the plant. 439 00:42:51,650 --> 00:42:55,720 Judson LeCompte: And so it may not be as disastrous as we thought to begin with. 440 00:42:56,300 --> 00:43:02,040 Judson LeCompte: But yes, we would like to have a plant that has really good resistance to rose rosette. 441 00:43:02,340 --> 00:43:06,100 Judson LeCompte: But also in that same breath, black spot, downy mildew. 442 00:43:06,460 --> 00:43:08,320 Judson LeCompte: These are all very important things for us. 443 00:43:09,060 --> 00:43:15,180 Judson LeCompte: And when you bring plants from other countries, they have different pathogens there. 444 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:22,420 Judson LeCompte: And so the black spot races that they have in Europe are completely different than the black spot races that we have here in the U.S. 445 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:29,740 Judson LeCompte: And so it may be exceptionally resistant in Europe, but by the time we get it into the US, it's not. 446 00:43:30,590 --> 00:43:31,960 Judson LeCompte: So that's why we do a lot of trialing. 447 00:43:32,150 --> 00:43:40,920 Judson LeCompte: We have trialing locations near Miami, one in South Mississippi, Austin, Texas, Minnesota, and then in Michigan. 448 00:43:41,260 --> 00:43:46,560 Judson LeCompte: So we really try to get a lot of different areas for, I like to say, death and destruction. 449 00:43:46,770 --> 00:43:50,380 Judson LeCompte: I want to see if I can get rid of the bad ones quickly. 450 00:43:51,660 --> 00:43:52,780 Judson LeCompte: It makes my job a lot easier. 451 00:43:53,150 --> 00:43:56,460 Judson LeCompte: Our trials, we irrigate roses at midnight and at noon. 452 00:43:57,510 --> 00:43:59,660 Judson LeCompte: So we want the foliage to always be wet. 453 00:44:00,380 --> 00:44:02,000 Judson LeCompte: And this is gonna push that disease. 454 00:44:03,100 --> 00:44:06,320 Judson LeCompte: And so it really is a lot of fun proving it. 455 00:44:06,620 --> 00:44:09,720 Judson LeCompte: It's nice not being in academia because I don't have to publish anything. 456 00:44:11,180 --> 00:44:18,020 Judson LeCompte: But it is a little more stressful because you're dealing with a lot of plants and we want our breeders to be successful. 457 00:44:18,540 --> 00:44:30,140 Ping Yu: Yeah, since you brought it up, Judson is one of the, I call him the unicorn because he has a PhD in horticulture and he's doing the plant hunter per se. 458 00:44:30,420 --> 00:44:39,800 Ping Yu: But how would you say that your academic training or skill, how does those skills work? 459 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,480 Ping Yu: help you or hurt you in a certain way? 460 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:44,860 Ping Yu: With your job? 461 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:51,580 Judson LeCompte: So I never went to college with the goal of getting a PhD. 462 00:44:52,780 --> 00:44:56,260 Judson LeCompte: I got done with my undergrad in the middle of the recession. 463 00:44:56,660 --> 00:44:57,560 Judson LeCompte: I wanted to be a grower. 464 00:44:58,860 --> 00:45:03,480 Judson LeCompte: Every job offer I got to be a grower was making less money than I was making at Home Depot. 465 00:45:04,420 --> 00:45:06,220 Judson LeCompte: And so I was like, well, this isn't going to work out. 466 00:45:06,220 --> 00:45:06,920 Judson LeCompte: I'll just stay at Home Depot. 467 00:45:07,860 --> 00:45:11,480 Judson LeCompte: My advisors were like, "No, Judson, you're going to continue to go to school. 468 00:45:11,770 --> 00:45:12,940 Judson LeCompte: Like, you have potential. 469 00:45:13,330 --> 00:45:19,000 Judson LeCompte: You will keep going to school." And so I finished with my master's and I thought about a PhD. 470 00:45:19,190 --> 00:45:21,980 Judson LeCompte: I didn't really know what I wanted to do, whether it was time. 471 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:28,580 Judson LeCompte: And I had a department head that told me, "Judson, like, really like you. 472 00:45:29,260 --> 00:45:30,080 Judson LeCompte: You're a great teacher. 473 00:45:30,500 --> 00:45:33,300 Judson LeCompte: That's all I want to do is teach." And they said, "Just go get your PhD. 474 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:40,619 Judson LeCompte: Just finish it and come back and teach for us." And I got the opportunity to go to Mississippi State and study tea. 475 00:45:41,059 --> 00:45:44,079 Judson LeCompte: So that was my first trip to China was to learn about tea production. 476 00:45:44,940 --> 00:45:46,839 Judson LeCompte: And I learned a lot. 477 00:45:47,039 --> 00:45:58,400 Judson LeCompte: I learned how the academic system works, how to appease different levels of superiors and how to... 478 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,380 Judson LeCompte: You live in a gray world, right? 479 00:46:02,119 --> 00:46:03,240 Judson LeCompte: There's never a no. 480 00:46:03,900 --> 00:46:04,760 Judson LeCompte: There's a... 481 00:46:05,020 --> 00:46:16,020 Judson LeCompte: solution to every problem. You build a lot of bridges. And so these are the things that I learned in academia. Perseverance, being able to finish when things get hard and difficult. 482 00:46:17,060 --> 00:46:33,500 Judson LeCompte: But yeah, I wouldn't say for this job, you need to have a PhD. You just have to have really good plant knowledge. You have to have good people skills and you have to want to travel. And my colleagues, my competitors, there's not many of us. 483 00:46:33,740 --> 00:46:36,880 Judson LeCompte: There's a couple of handfuls of us around the world. 484 00:46:37,619 --> 00:46:41,400 Judson LeCompte: And we all know each other and we all get along great for the most part. 485 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:47,260 Judson LeCompte: But it is a very unique position that you don't learn anything about in school. 486 00:46:48,839 --> 00:46:58,540 Judson LeCompte: So I think being able to import a lot of that I gained from the university just dealing with all the little steps that you have to do to get something through. 487 00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:01,079 Judson LeCompte: And then knowing that it's probably going to fail. 488 00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:11,440 Judson LeCompte: International shipment, something always screws up and is being able to adapt and overcome it and just be flexible and adaptable in ambiguous situations. 489 00:47:12,100 --> 00:47:16,020 Ping Yu: Yeah, I think I can't agree with you more. 490 00:47:16,250 --> 00:47:29,660 Ping Yu: There are certain things that we typically don't get from grad school or the school system in general, like the people skills and being adaptable, be flexible in all those. 491 00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:52,220 Ping Yu: But in that regard, what are some of the suggestions or advice that you would give for the students or the early career scientists that are interested in international plant exploration or in research in horticulture in general? 492 00:47:53,359 --> 00:48:03,000 Judson LeCompte: I can only tell you what has worked for me and that the biggest impact that has happened on my career is wholeheartedly IPPS. 493 00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,440 Judson LeCompte: I joined IPPS Southern Region as an undergrad. 494 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:15,700 Judson LeCompte: My propagation professor, Dr. Ken Tilt, who's great, gave me 50 bonus points to go to my first IPPS conference. 495 00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,600 Judson LeCompte: And I have not missed one since. 496 00:48:18,140 --> 00:48:28,120 Judson LeCompte: So literally every assistantship that I got, every job offer I've gotten, even my PhD assistantship, I can all trace back to IPPS. 497 00:48:28,980 --> 00:48:30,300 Judson LeCompte: And it's building that network. 498 00:48:31,220 --> 00:48:33,380 Judson LeCompte: Never take an introduction for granted. 499 00:48:34,460 --> 00:48:38,020 Judson LeCompte: Get phone numbers, add people on Facebook, add people on LinkedIn. 500 00:48:38,799 --> 00:48:47,920 Judson LeCompte: You may think that you need to have a really strong relationship with this person to do that, but just by them seeing you and getting to know you, that builds trust. 501 00:48:48,599 --> 00:48:52,420 Judson LeCompte: And so then you become familiar with them everywhere you go. 502 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:59,819 Judson LeCompte: And you really only got one chance to burn a bridge. And it could screw up your entire career. 503 00:49:00,579 --> 00:49:05,940 Judson LeCompte: So building that network, IPPS, ASHS was also a great resource for me. 504 00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:11,880 Judson LeCompte: Find you a mentor, reach out to me, find you somebody that's doing what you like. 505 00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,340 Judson LeCompte: and want to do and don't be scared to reach out to them. 506 00:49:15,780 --> 00:49:29,280 Ping Yu: With that in mind, if people really want to get ahold of you or find or follow up with what you do and what Spring Meadow is doing, where do you suggest them or recommend them? 507 00:49:29,460 --> 00:49:32,760 Judson LeCompte: So certainly suggest you can always reach out to me. 508 00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,340 Judson LeCompte: My email is judson@springmeadownursery.com. 509 00:49:36,660 --> 00:49:37,340 Judson LeCompte: Super easy. 510 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,560 Judson LeCompte: And then our website, springmeadownursery.com. 511 00:49:41,380 --> 00:49:42,800 Judson LeCompte: And that will get you all the information. 512 00:49:43,340 --> 00:49:49,080 Judson LeCompte: And certainly, yes, reach out to me if you find a new plant, be willing to, more than willing to hear it. 513 00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:58,080 Judson LeCompte: And then if you are thinking about a career in product development, certainly in horticulture, I would be more than willing to talk to anybody. 514 00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:02,940 Judson LeCompte: And then again, my colleagues, other colleagues in the industry, they believe the same. 515 00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:09,740 Judson LeCompte: And so if there's somebody closer to you location-wise, then yeah, we can find somebody else. 516 00:50:10,460 --> 00:50:10,980 Judson LeCompte: So yeah. 517 00:50:11,140 --> 00:50:11,240 Judson LeCompte: Yeah. 518 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:12,740 Judson LeCompte: We're a close-knit little bunch. 519 00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:14,180 Ping Yu: Sure. 520 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:15,560 Ping Yu: Thank you, Judson. 521 00:50:15,770 --> 00:50:20,740 Ping Yu: I thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to talk with us today. 522 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:36,680 Ping Yu: And, again, I can't emphasize enough how much I love your job. I'm very excited to put this episode out so that people will hear more about the story behind the scene. 523 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,100 Ping Yu: And hopefully... 524 00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:42,500 Ping Yu: they'll come and embrace our wonderful horticultural world. 525 00:50:43,540 --> 00:50:45,060 Judson LeCompte: And they will plant some more plants. 526 00:50:45,550 --> 00:50:45,760 Ping Yu: Yeah. 527 00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:47,700 Ping Yu: Sounds good. 528 00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,020 Ping Yu: Conversation like this only happens when you support the show. 529 00:50:55,600 --> 00:51:26,160 Ping Yu: For more information and find ways to support us, please go to bandbpod.com. bandbpod.com. If you like what you are hearing, spread the word and share this podcast with the people you love. Make sure you hit that subscription button and give a review for the podcast. And as always, go check out the show notes to learn more about this topic and other topics we featured on the show at bandbpod.com. 530 00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:27,400 Ping Yu: Thank you for listening. 531 00:51:27,660 --> 00:51:30,580 Ping Yu: Till the next time, stay healthy and go plants!