1 00:00:06,660 --> 00:00:14,360 Ping Yu: Hello everyone, welcome to the Blooms and Beyond podcast, a podcast that uncovers plant history, culture, and management through the lens of science. 2 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:15,960 Ping Yu: I'm your host, Ping. 3 00:00:16,340 --> 00:00:17,240 Ping Yu: How's everyone doing today? 4 00:00:17,620 --> 00:00:22,020 Ping Yu: I'm doing great because I'm about to talk about one of my favorite plants, peonies. 5 00:00:22,420 --> 00:00:23,560 Ping Yu: This plant is so unique. 6 00:00:23,870 --> 00:00:29,380 Ping Yu: It basically covers all the beautiful characteristics a plant can possibly have. 7 00:00:29,780 --> 00:00:39,880 Ping Yu: People who live in the southern U.S. like me may not be able to see them very often because the environment here in the Southeast is not good enough for them to grow. 8 00:00:40,220 --> 00:00:42,260 Ping Yu: Joining me today is Dr. Emily Zhou. 9 00:00:42,660 --> 00:00:53,240 Ping Yu: We are going to talk about this wonderful woman and some of the fantastic, phenomenal research that she has done over her PhD process. 10 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:59,019 Ping Yu: Without further ado, here is my conversation with Dr. Emily Zhou. I hope you enjoy it. 11 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:16,920 Ping Yu: Welcome, Dr. Emily Zhou, to the podcast. Before we jump into the topic today, I'd like you to start with a self-introduction. Can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do? 12 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:44,240 Emily Zhou: Hello, everybody. First of all, I am an assistant professor from University of Central Missouri, and this is my second year to be back to academia. Before this, I was in the industry at one of the largest indoor vertical farms, Bowery Farming, on the East Coast. Their headquarters was in Manhattan, New York City. 13 00:01:44,939 --> 00:01:58,979 Ping Yu: So if you guys know that I talked about this in the previous episode, I have encountered many people from different backgrounds who end up going into horticulture, and Dr. Emily Zhou is actually one of them. 14 00:01:59,340 --> 00:02:05,079 Ping Yu: Can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you ended up getting into horticulture? 15 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:13,240 Emily Zhou: That's great because my experience is quite unique. It's different from other people. 16 00:02:13,860 --> 00:02:24,620 Emily Zhou: My Bachelor of Science was in engineering and I was an HVAC engineer— heating, ventilation, and air conditioning. 17 00:02:24,650 --> 00:02:27,000 Emily Zhou: I love plants. I grew up... 18 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:32,200 Emily Zhou: on a farm in central China, the main center of agriculture. 19 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,900 Emily Zhou: So I grew up with all types of plants. 20 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,400 Emily Zhou: By nature, I know them and it's always my favorite. 21 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,220 Emily Zhou: But when you are young, life leads you in some other ways. 22 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,240 Emily Zhou: You try to see different opportunities. 23 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:48,420 Emily Zhou: So I went to engineering. 24 00:02:49,690 --> 00:02:57,260 Emily Zhou: I worked in the industry for around 10 years in China, in European companies. 25 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,740 Emily Zhou: Eventually, I came to the United States in 2002. 26 00:03:02,540 --> 00:03:12,120 Emily Zhou: So 23 years ago, as an engineer, I was traveling a lot when you are young, when you are single, but later on, I wanted to go to grad school. 27 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:17,820 Emily Zhou: So in the choice of grad school, you need to ask yourself what you love 28 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:19,460 Emily Zhou: and what is your passion. 29 00:03:19,700 --> 00:03:21,640 Emily Zhou: I was in Virginia at that time. 30 00:03:22,220 --> 00:03:24,840 Emily Zhou: I was very close to Virginia Tech. 31 00:03:25,380 --> 00:03:28,700 Emily Zhou: Then I learned that they have a horticulture program. 32 00:03:29,580 --> 00:03:38,800 Emily Zhou: Just by chance, I asked them if it's possible that I can go into horticulture to learn everything from the beginning. 33 00:03:39,420 --> 00:03:47,400 Emily Zhou: Fortunately, the department had an opening at that time and my master's advisor had a project about seed germination. 34 00:03:47,769 --> 00:04:06,700 Emily Zhou: So it led me, I started my master's and I took a lot of courses, both undergraduate and graduate, to fill the gap. After I got my master's, I think my passion is in traditional ornamental horticulture. 35 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,980 Emily Zhou: My PhD, leading to the herbaceous peony. 36 00:04:12,940 --> 00:04:21,640 Emily Zhou: So it is an interesting experience and I learned a lot of plant science, but I am still an engineer. 37 00:04:22,370 --> 00:04:29,000 Emily Zhou: So later on, at the end of my PhD, we started doing hydroponic research. 38 00:04:30,260 --> 00:04:46,500 Emily Zhou: I was thinking like every step— and I am throwing away my experience and knowledge—and switching to horticulture in my master's, like I threw away all my 10 years of HVAC engineering experience. 39 00:04:46,580 --> 00:05:23,480 Ping Yu: Not really. That's not the case because basically your trajectory in horticulture is very unique and very different from other people. Because you have a very strong engineering background, you have the heart for plants all the way, and then you kind of started from scratch moving to the U.S. and started with your master's degree at Virginia Tech and then started learning all those things about plants. But you ended up combining your knowledge and skill set from both engineering and horticulture for controlled environment agriculture, which was a hot topic probably five years ago. 40 00:05:23,640 --> 00:06:08,820 Ping Yu: And so I think it's not to the point that when you were saying you threw away all your experience, all your knowledge, and all your skills. But every mountain you have climbed, every step that you have put into the journey, ended up paying off or you have the reward in the end. Because now look at you—you have all that knowledge and years of experience dealing with both engineering and plants, and it makes you a perfect candidate, a perfect fit for your current position. I really like your story about how you ended up going from pure engineering to ornamentals. 41 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:47,520 Emily Zhou: Yeah, I can say that. Because a lot of—and when I was a graduate TA, so I am using my experience, but during my grad school time, a lot of people asked me, "Why do you do that? I wouldn't do this," because it's totally—like I spend a lot more time to fill up the plant science background. And also the master's and PhD—we know ornamental plants such as peonies, we do asexual propagation. So the seed background I learned from my master's, I also threw it away. But like you said, eventually you never know. You just learn the things, you never know when one day you can use them. 42 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:53,919 Emily Zhou: And eventually when coming to controlled environment agriculture, everything came together. 43 00:06:54,250 --> 00:07:03,000 Emily Zhou: So engineering, plant science, seeds, and we use all the HVAC in controlled environments 44 00:07:04,100 --> 00:07:05,740 Emily Zhou: to grow, so everything got together. 45 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:07,200 Ping Yu: You just know. 46 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:15,560 Ping Yu: I normally say all those experiences and knowledge and skills that you have gained throughout your years are like growing a plant. 47 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,900 Ping Yu: And every year, every experience adds... 48 00:07:18,979 --> 00:07:39,520 Ping Yu: branches to the plant and makes it bigger and makes it prettier. So like I said, every step counts. So talking about plants, I know that you always kind of loved plants all the way. Can you tell us what is your favorite plant? 49 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:55,580 Emily Zhou: Oh yeah. I consider myself a plant scientist, but sometimes even my boss said I have a mindset of an engineer, because engineers have different thinking ways than plant scientists. 50 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,960 Emily Zhou: And yes, I have both of them. 51 00:07:58,970 --> 00:08:03,259 Emily Zhou: They are speaking two different languages, but I know both of them. 52 00:08:04,020 --> 00:08:08,340 Emily Zhou: Talking about my favorite plants, I can't target just one. 53 00:08:08,479 --> 00:08:11,139 Emily Zhou: Normally, I don't discriminate any plants. 54 00:08:11,599 --> 00:08:12,419 Emily Zhou: They are all beautiful. 55 00:08:12,900 --> 00:08:15,400 Emily Zhou: Each of them has its unique beauty. 56 00:08:15,819 --> 00:08:25,340 Emily Zhou: But if you ask me, I have to say it is peony because I gained my Doctor of Philosophy out of that. 57 00:08:26,860 --> 00:08:30,380 Emily Zhou: During the time of research, I did four years. 58 00:08:31,139 --> 00:08:34,659 Emily Zhou: With your research in one year, you need to wait another year. 59 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:40,320 Emily Zhou: Because it's so hard, so you need to think about every possibility. 60 00:08:40,740 --> 00:08:44,760 Emily Zhou: They are growing during the winter time, especially the holiday time. 61 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,660 Emily Zhou: From November till the next year. 62 00:08:48,100 --> 00:08:50,480 Emily Zhou: And you cannot leave for one day. 63 00:08:50,610 --> 00:08:51,779 Emily Zhou: You need to take data. 64 00:08:51,870 --> 00:08:53,000 Emily Zhou: You need to take care of them. 65 00:08:53,130 --> 00:08:54,699 Emily Zhou: You need to do every step. 66 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:59,459 Emily Zhou: I took so long a time and so much effort on this. 67 00:09:00,100 --> 00:09:01,399 Emily Zhou: And it's rewarding. 68 00:09:01,819 --> 00:09:04,560 Emily Zhou: It is such a beautiful plant. 69 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,839 Emily Zhou: And I think a lot of people might have heard about horticultural therapy. 70 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:17,380 Emily Zhou: So plants have added a lot of value to your mental and spiritual wellbeing. 71 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:18,760 Emily Zhou: It is beautiful. 72 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:29,580 Emily Zhou: When you see a plant from a little piece of crown getting out and then getting the most beautiful flower, that's rewarding. 73 00:09:29,740 --> 00:09:31,240 Emily Zhou: And it has so many types. 74 00:09:31,780 --> 00:09:34,580 Emily Zhou: Like Ping said, it has ornamental value. 75 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:36,900 Emily Zhou: And it has beautiful flowers. 76 00:09:37,980 --> 00:09:41,580 Emily Zhou: And it has a strong stem of green. 77 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,220 Emily Zhou: And you can use it for cut flower. 78 00:09:45,820 --> 00:09:47,860 Emily Zhou: And they use it for weddings. 79 00:09:48,500 --> 00:09:50,600 Ping Yu: Your reason of... 80 00:09:50,699 --> 00:09:56,940 Ping Yu: like peony being your favorite plant is because it helped you earn your PhD degree. 81 00:09:57,180 --> 00:10:03,180 Ping Yu: It's interesting and funny and rewarding because a lot of times when I ask people, "What's your favorite plant?" 82 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,240 Ping Yu: They'll give me various reasons with, "Oh, this plant is great." 83 00:10:07,459 --> 00:10:10,579 Ping Yu: "This plant is resistant and then it's easy." 84 00:10:10,779 --> 00:10:12,899 Ping Yu: "It's low maintenance for me." 85 00:10:13,019 --> 00:10:17,579 Ping Yu: "This plant reminds me of home," or anything else. 86 00:10:17,399 --> 00:10:30,459 Ping Yu: In between, but no one has told me, "Because this plant gave me my PhD degree." This is very funny. But like you said, your PhD or your dissertation was based on the peony plant. 87 00:10:30,980 --> 00:10:43,240 Ping Yu: And you briefly mentioned that the use of peony in the U.S. is predominantly as cut flowers. I have lived in the United States the whole time. 88 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:56,380 Ping Yu: I don't see a whole lot of peony in the South, at least in the Southeast U.S., but I wish, I really wish I could see them more because back when I was in China, I saw them more often. 89 00:10:57,140 --> 00:11:06,180 Ping Yu: And they are gorgeous. They have those big flower heads when they bloom. They are just gorgeous because it's native to China. 90 00:11:09,839 --> 00:11:15,600 Ping Yu: Can you tell us a little bit about the history of the plant and moving from... 91 00:11:15,779 --> 00:11:17,920 Ping Yu: China all the way to the U.S. and to Europe? 92 00:11:18,899 --> 00:11:21,620 Emily Zhou: Okay, and that's my favorite part. 93 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:28,680 Emily Zhou: Because both the tree peony and herbaceous peony, they are native to China. 94 00:11:29,130 --> 00:11:35,759 Emily Zhou: And still now in northern China, you can see some wild-growing peony in the north. 95 00:11:36,279 --> 00:11:38,000 Emily Zhou: They have a big range. 96 00:11:38,500 --> 00:11:48,339 Emily Zhou: They can grow from Zone 2 and 3. Even they can grow in Zone 8, some cultivars. 97 00:11:48,870 --> 00:11:59,180 Emily Zhou: Yes, China has more than three to four thousand years of history growing that, and you can find that in ancient poetry. 98 00:11:59,940 --> 00:12:42,860 Emily Zhou: And it's a flower of love. It's also a medicinal plant. Some of the varieties, they are using the underground crown, or they call it the peony root, for herbal medicine. They have strictly white root peony and also the red root peony. It had a culture and growing—even the peak time was during the Tang and Song dynasties. So it was cultivated in the capital, central China, around the Yellow River, and it's everywhere in the gardens. 99 00:12:43,220 --> 00:12:51,600 Emily Zhou: Nowadays, if you go to Luoyang, it was the 1,300-year-history capital in China. 100 00:12:52,120 --> 00:13:53,780 Emily Zhou: They still have a peony garden. So it's mixed up with tree peonies and herbaceous peonies because herbaceous peonies can extend the flowering time. So altogether it can bloom from late March—my research did that— and until some of the native species, they bloom even in July. So depending on different varieties, you can see all types of flowers. The cultivation went to Japan, and in the end of the 1800s, they introduced it to Europe. And European people brought this to America. And Americans—we learned that in the early 19th century. And suddenly, because of the environment and a lot of climates fit for growing this plant. 101 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:59,620 Emily Zhou: This plant is also very hardy and they can grow in different climates. 102 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:08,880 Ping Yu: You mentioned that peony does have different cultivars and varieties, and in China, because it has a very long history of cultivation of this plant. 103 00:14:09,420 --> 00:14:14,220 Ping Yu: So it does involve a lot of different varieties and cultivars. 104 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,680 Ping Yu: Like you said, how many cultivars are there in China? 105 00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:38,060 Emily Zhou: For what we know already, the American Peony Society—and it's not only for the United States, also including Canada and Mexico, majorly Canada—the registered cultivars are already more than—oh my god. 106 00:14:38,420 --> 00:14:40,600 Emily Zhou: So that's only herbaceous peony. 107 00:14:40,740 --> 00:14:49,760 Emily Zhou: And we also have tree peony, and also have the Itoh, and it is a hybrid between tree peony and herbaceous peony. 108 00:14:49,760 --> 00:15:11,100 Emily Zhou: So a lot of different cultivars with different colors, different forms, and the majority of them have double flowers, a big head, and more colors than the tree peonies. I have seen people in the South growing peonies, just not as 109 00:15:11,340 --> 00:15:59,360 Ping Yu: much as I wish it can be, like everywhere. I think it also has something to do with the price. Because one, those that are available that are easily adapted to the southern environment are not that many. And two, those are pretty—I think I can say it's a pretty pricey plant. It's a high-end plant. As I think you mentioned, for wedding purposes, one cut of peony can be worth over six dollars. The limited cultivars available for people to choose from and the higher price of the plant itself, those two reasons maybe cause the reality where we don't see them very often in the South in general. 110 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:06,459 Emily Zhou: I have seen like one of the yellow color peony cultivars. 111 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,980 Emily Zhou: It's a small plant in a one-gallon pot. 112 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:15,440 Emily Zhou: It was the year 2017 and it cost $120. 113 00:16:16,940 --> 00:16:18,660 Emily Zhou: Yeah, also the extension. 114 00:16:19,140 --> 00:16:22,480 Emily Zhou: So like the growers, a lot of growers, they don't know. 115 00:16:23,459 --> 00:16:27,300 Emily Zhou: And I went to some conferences like Cultivate. 116 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:34,959 Emily Zhou: And some of the growers, they came to me, they said like, "They grow, but they don't flower." 117 00:16:35,420 --> 00:16:38,380 Ping Yu: There are specific plants in my heart. 118 00:16:38,579 --> 00:16:43,420 Ping Yu: Every time I think about them, they always give me an instant feeling of homesickness 119 00:16:43,639 --> 00:17:28,260 Ping Yu: type of thing, because of the culture that you have been exposed to when you grow up. And peony is one of them because I think it's a top 10 most famous plant or flower in China and it represents prosperity and it has a long history of cultivation. In the U.S., it symbolizes freedom, horizon, and the pioneering spirit of the American West. Like you said, it also means true love and is used in weddings. So with all that culture and meaning behind the plant, it just gives you extra pleasure of the plant. So I think that's— sometimes I say it's plant power. 120 00:17:28,900 --> 00:17:32,480 Ping Yu: It's not just the plant, it's everything about the plant. 121 00:17:33,020 --> 00:17:38,980 Emily Zhou: Yeah, it's a famous flower in China, and tree peony is the national flower in China. 122 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,580 Emily Zhou: And in history, people call that the queen of the flowers. 123 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:48,720 Emily Zhou: But it also needs a lot of skill to grow it better. 124 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:50,140 Emily Zhou: That also explains why 125 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:51,639 Emily Zhou: it's expensive. 126 00:17:55,080 --> 00:18:00,260 Ping Yu: Peony is one type of bulb, just like daffodils, tulips. 127 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:13,380 Ping Yu: They normally need vernalization, which means they need a certain period of cold to be able to break dormancy so that they can bloom. 128 00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:20,080 Ping Yu: I think that's one of the key research areas that you have studied during your PhD, right? 129 00:18:20,220 --> 00:18:29,460 Ping Yu: Can you tell us a little bit about how different lengths of the cold period influence the plant growth and plant flowering? 130 00:18:30,020 --> 00:18:36,440 Emily Zhou: As Ping said, the herbaceous peony is one type of geophyte. 131 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:48,700 Emily Zhou: So it's similar with the tulips, daffodils—they are bulbs, and some of them like crocus, they are corms, and some of them, they are rhizomes. 132 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,680 Emily Zhou: The peony is an underground 133 00:18:51,620 --> 00:19:14,820 Emily Zhou: stem tissue which has a core and the propagation part, called the crown. So it has buds, and those buds normally grow up during the summer after flowering. It normally flowers in the springtime. Some of them early spring, late spring, depending on the cultivar. 134 00:19:15,380 --> 00:19:24,980 Emily Zhou: So after flowering, they start to develop the photosynthesis, they store energy, they start to develop the underground crown. 135 00:19:25,370 --> 00:19:36,860 Emily Zhou: So during the fall time, like September, October, most of the underground buds are already set. 136 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:42,400 Emily Zhou: It is critical why this plant is precious if it's not favorable. 137 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:58,680 Emily Zhou: If you don't have good care or the environment is not favorable to the plants and you lose the foliage after flowering or you cut it too early, the buds are not developed enough. 138 00:19:59,060 --> 00:20:08,700 Emily Zhou: Part of my research is studying the buds during the dormancy period, which is the chilling period or the vernalization period. 139 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:16,160 Emily Zhou: So during that time, it looks like it's dormant, but the underground buds, they are developing. 140 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:28,560 Emily Zhou: So after the late fall, the aboveground shoots and leaves are starting to decline, but all the energy is stored in the underground shoot. 141 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:30,280 Emily Zhou: So they develop the buds. 142 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,540 Emily Zhou: And it is just like tulips— if you don't have enough 143 00:20:36,100 --> 00:20:41,440 Emily Zhou: cold, a lot of the cold-hardy types, they won't flower. 144 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,720 Emily Zhou: So they will grow the shoots, but no flower. 145 00:20:45,300 --> 00:20:48,780 Emily Zhou: Most of the growers grow these plants. 146 00:20:49,380 --> 00:20:53,980 Emily Zhou: They dig them out in November, before Thanksgiving. 147 00:20:54,620 --> 00:21:05,880 Emily Zhou: They leave them either outside 148 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,380 Emily Zhou: or they can put them in a cooler or a cold room. 149 00:21:02,670 --> 00:21:15,520 Emily Zhou: So a big portion of my PhD study is about artificial chilling and comparing with natural chilling. But natural chilling just depends on the weather that year. 150 00:21:15,870 --> 00:21:21,140 Emily Zhou: But we have different models to calculate the chilling units. 151 00:21:22,380 --> 00:21:27,780 Emily Zhou: Either put them in a greenhouse, forcing them to flower early for Valentine's Day. 152 00:21:27,860 --> 00:21:46,720 Ping Yu: Wow, so you kind of mentioned that you compared the natural chilling period depending on the location where the state that you're in versus the forcing treatment, which is just putting them into a growth chamber or cooling chamber to force them to go through the vernalization period. 153 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:54,600 Ping Yu: But you mentioned you were able to force the peony to start flowering during Valentine's Day. 154 00:21:55,650 --> 00:22:04,480 Ping Yu: In your research, what is the treatment? How long was the chilling or the cold period that you put them into? 155 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:11,400 Emily Zhou: Yeah, and I would like to say that before using anything, just pure chilling. 156 00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:23,419 Emily Zhou: And if you don't have a cold winter, you can put it in a cold room, which is a temperature of 40 degrees Fahrenheit. 157 00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:26,520 Emily Zhou: I did study about different periods. 158 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:36,140 Emily Zhou: But I used two cultivars. Sarah Bernhardt is a big pink flower, has a very big double flower head. 159 00:22:36,780 --> 00:22:56,520 Emily Zhou: That's the number one cut flower used worldwide, and it occupies 50% of the peony cut flower market, even worldwide. In Europe, the Netherlands is the biggest flower producer, especially for bulbs, tulips, same thing. 160 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,620 Emily Zhou: So they are also producing a lot. 161 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:09,140 Emily Zhou: My research was starting that, and I put them to constant chilling— three weeks, 21 days. 162 00:23:09,940 --> 00:23:11,360 Emily Zhou: And it should be enough. 163 00:23:12,070 --> 00:23:14,700 Emily Zhou: After that, you can take it out. 164 00:23:14,980 --> 00:23:29,919 Emily Zhou: Normally you need to put it in a greenhouse or protection because when they start to emerge, the tender shoots cannot survive if there's frost, snow, or cold temperature. 165 00:23:30,150 --> 00:23:50,360 Emily Zhou: If you start in your greenhouse under normal greenhouse conditions, forcing them, like we normally do, they start to pot up. And some parts of the northern states, they already have late frost and the temperature will be below 40. 166 00:23:51,060 --> 00:23:55,520 Emily Zhou: So you can start putting them in mid- to late November. 167 00:23:56,460 --> 00:24:01,380 Emily Zhou: And you can put them in December, three weeks in 40 degrees Fahrenheit. 168 00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:08,620 Emily Zhou: You can take them out to force them, and it normally flowers in two months. 169 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:29,100 Ping Yu: So for instance, for growers in the north, if they choose not to use forcing during the chilling period, they can still do that and they can still hit the market just because they have the environment there, and they don't have to spend extra time and effort putting them into a chilling period so that they can still hit the market. 170 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:40,640 Ping Yu: Valentine's market and vase blooming. But for people who live in the South, if they want to hit the market, they have to go through the chilling period and forcing so that they can hit the market. 171 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:42,280 Emily Zhou: Absolutely. 172 00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:46,460 Emily Zhou: I did research also on natural chilling. 173 00:24:47,180 --> 00:25:07,020 Emily Zhou: And take them back to the greenhouse just forcing them to grow flowers and grow the plants. So when you have temperature favorable, they start to emerge and then grow and get flower shoots. And yes, the northern states, you don't need to worry about that. 174 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:17,360 Emily Zhou: I think if it is in hardiness Zone 6 and below, the chilling should be satisfied. 175 00:25:18,460 --> 00:25:22,680 Emily Zhou: Zone 7 is almost the line. 176 00:25:22,790 --> 00:25:33,420 Emily Zhou: So most of the peonies can grow— the chilling, the natural chilling should be okay— and to get that in Zone 7. 177 00:25:34,020 --> 00:25:48,220 Ping Yu: I think one of the things that almost all growers want is to shorten the production cycle of any given plant because the faster you can grow plants, the more plants that you can grow, the more money you can gain. 178 00:25:48,680 --> 00:26:02,480 Ping Yu: So, can you tell us a little bit about what you have learned from your research so that people can have a better understanding of how they can use that to grow peony better 179 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:04,000 Ping Yu: and faster? 180 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:05,420 Emily Zhou: Oh, yes. 181 00:26:05,580 --> 00:26:06,460 Emily Zhou: Yes, absolutely. 182 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:19,940 Emily Zhou: My research was done in Virginia, and I was working together with a large nursery production, Battlefield Farms, and it's in the center of Virginia. 183 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,600 Emily Zhou: They have, like... 184 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:32,559 Emily Zhou: thousands of peonies and they start to get the crowns in mid-November every year. 185 00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:41,919 Emily Zhou: And normally they're using crowns that are small and have three to five buds that you can pot up in a one-gallon pot. 186 00:26:42,160 --> 00:27:03,820 Emily Zhou: So the traditional process is after potting them up, they leave them outside. And the first year they grow through the natural chilling. After the winter, the first springtime, containerized peony should have like three-plus flowering shoots. 187 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:13,340 Emily Zhou: That means the shoots with the flowers, they are on the market in flowering time, normally May, and some cultivars may be late April. 188 00:27:13,940 --> 00:27:18,840 Emily Zhou: Normally the production cycle is 18 months, one and a half years. 189 00:27:19,260 --> 00:27:27,019 Emily Zhou: My research is majorly for the containerized nursery and then they sell the peony in the pot. 190 00:27:27,570 --> 00:27:30,659 Emily Zhou: Majorly targeting the home garden. 191 00:27:31,039 --> 00:27:34,059 Emily Zhou: Some years the chilling units 192 00:27:34,799 --> 00:28:10,720 Emily Zhou: are not enough. You need to wait— and it's reaching the ideal units, then you can take it to the greenhouse to force them. In order to get Valentine's Day blooming, I did—I compared the controlled chilling in a cold room and also the natural chilling. Another way, if people don't have a lot of space and don't have that big chilling place, is using a plant growth regulator, the gibberellic acid, the GA3. 193 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:18,960 Emily Zhou: It can replace some of the chilling and it can make your peony flower. 194 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:34,280 Emily Zhou: I have an extension publication from Virginia Tech, and later on you can find out we use gibberellic acid, GA3, and the ideal concentration is 100 parts per million. 195 00:28:34,080 --> 00:29:03,260 Emily Zhou: Normally my suggestion— I did several research trials—either you do it before chilling or after chilling. And the good suggestion is, after you finish the chilling, either natural or you put it first in a constant cold room, one week. After you take it to the greenhouse for forcing, you apply the drench of gibberellic acid. 196 00:29:04,059 --> 00:29:07,340 Emily Zhou: And it can satisfy some of the chilling. 197 00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:10,960 Emily Zhou: You can shorten the growing cycle. 198 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,139 Emily Zhou: That's a big benefit for growers. 199 00:29:13,539 --> 00:29:21,820 Emily Zhou: Imagine you have 10,000 peonies, you need to occupy a lot of space and care. 200 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:29,539 Emily Zhou: So you need to water them, fertilize them, you need to take care of them, you need to cut them back after one season. 201 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,660 Emily Zhou: In 18 months' time, it can shorten to five to six months' time. 202 00:29:34,919 --> 00:29:41,880 Ping Yu: Basically, if you are using GA3 for drenching to grow peonies, of course you have to do it right. 203 00:29:42,059 --> 00:29:49,419 Ping Yu: And if you do it right, you can actually reduce the production cycle of peonies from 18 months to five, six months. 204 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:50,880 Emily Zhou: That's crazy. 205 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:58,000 Emily Zhou: For the Valentine's Day supply, like you do that, till that time is three to four months. 206 00:29:58,059 --> 00:29:58,440 Ping Yu: Wow. 207 00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:01,860 Emily Zhou: Yeah, but you need a cold room and you need a greenhouse. 208 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:13,720 Ping Yu: For all those growers who want to use GA3 for peony, the plant has to go through either the natural chilling period or the forced chilling period. 209 00:30:14,020 --> 00:30:22,660 Ping Yu: It's just that using GA3 can actually add on benefits of reducing the production cycle on top of everything you do. 210 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:32,000 Emily Zhou: If you're using the right cultivar to satisfy the standard marketing, you can sell them with three flowering shoots. 211 00:30:32,740 --> 00:30:36,800 Emily Zhou: And that can reduce at least a year of production. 212 00:30:37,290 --> 00:30:37,460 Ping Yu: Wow. 213 00:30:38,220 --> 00:30:39,040 Ping Yu: So that's great. 214 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:39,900 Ping Yu: That's great. 215 00:30:39,940 --> 00:30:45,040 Ping Yu: That's great for any peony growers who want to cut down the production cycle. 216 00:30:45,650 --> 00:30:51,940 Ping Yu: They need to think about using that just so they can save tons of effort, space, and money in general. 217 00:30:52,260 --> 00:30:55,620 Emily Zhou: Also, I calculated the cost. 218 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,460 Emily Zhou: It is very low cost. 219 00:30:57,750 --> 00:31:01,700 Emily Zhou: For each pot, the cost is just less than 10 cents. 220 00:31:02,660 --> 00:31:06,640 Emily Zhou: So it is very easy and everybody can do that. 221 00:31:07,050 --> 00:31:13,220 Emily Zhou: And if you get the right concentration, you can do one day and a thousand pots. 222 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:26,960 Ping Yu: I think for anyone who has seen peony and who deals with peony, we know peony generally have big flower heads, which is why people love it. 223 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:35,320 Ping Yu: But it can also cause problems for growers who grow them, because if they grow too big, they're pretty fragile. 224 00:31:35,820 --> 00:31:47,200 Ping Yu: When you are dealing with a very big plant in a container, it can cause a lot of problems, especially when you are moving them around or when you apply inputs in there. 225 00:31:47,620 --> 00:32:02,400 Ping Yu: So I think one of the things that people are trying to do or have done in practice is to use PGR, the plant growth regulators, especially retardants, to make it shorter, make it more compact. 226 00:32:02,820 --> 00:32:10,520 Ping Yu: So that it will become easier for growers to handle when they grow the peony plant. 227 00:32:11,090 --> 00:32:21,720 Ping Yu: I guess there are so many different retardants that are available for people to choose from, but with your experience, the two retardants that you have used—or three. 228 00:32:22,460 --> 00:32:24,600 Ping Yu: What is the best... 229 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:32,740 Ping Yu: What was the most effective in terms of making the plant more compact and have more flower heads? 230 00:32:34,580 --> 00:32:36,620 Emily Zhou: Oh, that's a great question. Yes. 231 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,380 Emily Zhou: Especially for the containerized grower. 232 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,140 Emily Zhou: And it is a problem. 233 00:32:43,299 --> 00:32:49,120 Emily Zhou: This plant is beautiful, but normally it has too-heavy heads. 234 00:32:49,580 --> 00:32:51,580 Emily Zhou: And they can grow quite tall. 235 00:32:52,180 --> 00:32:55,420 Emily Zhou: The heavy head can droop, especially in the landscape. 236 00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:01,460 Emily Zhou: If there is wind or rain during flowering time, they are dropping to the ground. 237 00:33:01,580 --> 00:33:08,760 Emily Zhou: For the nursery grower/producer, it is also the shipping and handling— it's a big problem. 238 00:33:09,020 --> 00:33:18,100 Emily Zhou: If they are too big, they can fall down and then they crack the stem, especially the flowering stem. 239 00:33:18,900 --> 00:33:21,260 Emily Zhou: Expensive plants, you cannot sell them. 240 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:29,640 Emily Zhou: One of my research areas is using plant growth regulators, we call them plant retardants. 241 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:43,000 Emily Zhou: The major function of plant retardants is to make the plant more compact, shorter, with more stems, and stronger. 242 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:51,159 Emily Zhou: Another advantage of that is your plant, the leaves, get greener and look more full. 243 00:33:51,679 --> 00:33:56,000 Emily Zhou: And the flower should get also stronger. 244 00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:02,340 Emily Zhou: It's not easy to fall down. If you use staking, that's more money and more time. 245 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,419 Emily Zhou: And consuming, especially the growers, they don't want to do that. 246 00:34:06,799 --> 00:34:14,300 Emily Zhou: My research, I used together the chilling and the GA3. 247 00:34:14,919 --> 00:34:19,020 Emily Zhou: But I used two types of growth retardants. 248 00:34:19,339 --> 00:34:24,299 Emily Zhou: One is uniconazole and another is paclobutrazol. 249 00:34:24,839 --> 00:34:38,280 Emily Zhou: Overall, uniconazole is more significant. Paclobutrazol is less effective for herbaceous peonies, at least. 250 00:34:38,329 --> 00:34:45,159 Emily Zhou: So my suggestion is to use uniconazole and gibberellic acid together. 251 00:34:45,940 --> 00:35:05,180 Emily Zhou: The application method—if you want to have a compact plant, with more flower heads, you can use uniconazole at 15 parts per million concentration. For each one-gallon container, just 12 ounces per pot. 252 00:35:05,190 --> 00:35:19,180 Emily Zhou: The application is almost at the same time, after you satisfy the chilling and moving them either to the greenhouse, forcing them to flower early. 253 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:25,220 Emily Zhou: It is also safe to apply, easy to apply, and very economical. 254 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:30,740 Emily Zhou: I did calculate the cost, so it is similar to the GA3. 255 00:35:30,839 --> 00:35:44,440 Ping Yu: So basically with your experience and your research, would you suggest peony growers apply GA3 along with uniconazole? 256 00:35:45,140 --> 00:35:56,420 Ping Yu: And for people who live in the border Zone 7, apply those two chemicals along with a forced chilling period. 257 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:02,840 Ping Yu: Is that what you would suggest for growers in like a border state? 258 00:36:04,839 --> 00:36:11,480 Emily Zhou: Yes, because if you are in a northern state, you don't need GA3 because you already have enough chilling. 259 00:36:11,839 --> 00:36:18,579 Emily Zhou: And if you do natural chilling, it is already enough, but you just need to apply uniconazole. 260 00:36:19,380 --> 00:36:24,160 Emily Zhou: And then, especially for container growers, you have more compact 261 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:32,680 Emily Zhou: plants and they have a greener foliage color and it is more marketable. 262 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,520 Emily Zhou: And for the border states like Zone 7, they can do both. 263 00:36:37,850 --> 00:36:45,819 Ping Yu: And I think it's pretty straightforward because GA3 and uniconazole can both be applied as a drench. 264 00:36:46,099 --> 00:36:53,640 Ping Yu: Can they mix those two together so that instead of doing two drenches, they can do one drench all at the same time? 265 00:36:53,940 --> 00:36:56,460 Ping Yu: Because in that case, it can save labor and everything. 266 00:36:57,240 --> 00:36:58,360 Emily Zhou: I haven't done that. 267 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:07,340 Emily Zhou: I first applied the GA3, the drench, and the uniconazole I do normally a day after. 268 00:37:07,740 --> 00:37:15,280 Emily Zhou: So both of the growth retardants I was using—uniconazole and paclobutrazol— they can stay. 269 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:24,140 Emily Zhou: Even if you apply that, you water them, they stay in the media, they stay with the pot for a long, long time. 270 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:29,700 Emily Zhou: I just don't suggest a tank mix together because I don't know. 271 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:36,140 Emily Zhou: This is also preliminary research I did with four seasons. 272 00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:40,980 Emily Zhou: And I need to do more research in order to get that. 273 00:37:41,220 --> 00:37:50,840 Ping Yu: I think uniconazole can also be applied as a foliar spray and also as a dip or pre-plant bulb dip. 274 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:51,640 Emily Zhou: Yeah. 275 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:56,900 Emily Zhou: I don't suggest a pre-plant dip. 276 00:37:57,180 --> 00:38:06,740 Emily Zhou: So this is the crown—you first do that because normally when you get the crowns before you pot up, they have some fungicide treatment. 277 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:08,580 Emily Zhou: So you don't want to wash it out. 278 00:38:08,720 --> 00:38:19,580 Emily Zhou: The research also shows if you apply it earlier, during the chilling or before chilling, it's not as good as when you apply it after chilling. 279 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:20,740 Emily Zhou: After chilling. 280 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:37,420 Emily Zhou: I know the big growers are coming from the Netherlands, and some of the cultivars, they are from the northern states— Oregon, Washington State, and also the Great Lakes area around there, Minnesota, Michigan. 281 00:38:37,940 --> 00:38:40,760 Emily Zhou: They have some growers and they are selling those. 282 00:38:41,420 --> 00:38:46,520 Ping Yu: Okay, so the application time also plays a big role in terms of the effect of the chemical. 283 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,720 Emily Zhou: Yeah, I don't suggest pre-dipping. 284 00:38:49,400 --> 00:39:11,780 Emily Zhou: And I also don't suggest a foliar spray because you don't know what stage— and if you do, you want to affect it as long as possible. Because when the shoots get out, they're already with the flower buds. The flower buds are already there before they emerge. So you want to affect the shoot growth. 285 00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:19,720 Emily Zhou: And when the plants are small, they do not have enough surface area to absorb the foliar spray. 286 00:39:20,340 --> 00:39:24,620 Emily Zhou: And also, there are other difficulties to do that. 287 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,000 Emily Zhou: The plants are not uniform in size. 288 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,520 Emily Zhou: Some are large, some are smaller. 289 00:39:29,700 --> 00:39:36,680 Emily Zhou: So you cannot make sure each plant receives the same amount of plant growth regulator. 290 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:38,940 Emily Zhou: So the drench is the best way. 291 00:39:39,460 --> 00:39:44,840 Emily Zhou: The drench is easy—each pot will receive the right amount. 292 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:51,180 Emily Zhou: And it stays with the media, the substrate particles, even with the pots. 293 00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:53,100 Ping Yu: Yeah, it's also easy to do the job. 294 00:39:53,380 --> 00:39:53,900 Ping Yu: Sounds great. 295 00:39:54,260 --> 00:39:58,200 Ping Yu: Can you tell us a little bit about your current projects or interests? 296 00:39:58,300 --> 00:40:02,760 Ping Yu: Are you going to carry along with your peony work in your current job? 297 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:03,860 Ping Yu: And what is the plan? 298 00:40:03,900 --> 00:40:06,260 Ping Yu: What are your current projects or interests? 299 00:40:07,060 --> 00:40:14,500 Emily Zhou: I can do the peony work, but at the end, I came to controlled environment agriculture. 300 00:40:15,140 --> 00:40:15,280 Emily Zhou: Yeah. 301 00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:19,420 Emily Zhou: Just like my introduction earlier, I am an HVAC engineer. 302 00:40:19,950 --> 00:40:23,640 Emily Zhou: When I started my PhD, there were very few people 303 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:28,120 Emily Zhou: in the United States doing controlled environment agriculture. 304 00:40:28,460 --> 00:40:37,940 Emily Zhou: I connected with that at the end, so it led to my postdoc, and I built up an indoor vertical farm and did a lot of hydroponic research. 305 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:43,740 Emily Zhou: I was doing peony work still, as I started with controlled environment agriculture. 306 00:40:44,180 --> 00:40:52,980 Emily Zhou: Later, after my postdoc time, I did enough academic research and I wanted to go to the real industry. 307 00:40:53,440 --> 00:41:02,000 Emily Zhou: And because in controlled environment agriculture, the highest technology and facilities and equipment were in industry. 308 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:07,740 Emily Zhou: Because we don't have the equipment, we cannot do research in the universities. 309 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:17,100 Emily Zhou: So I went to an indoor vertical farming company and became a research and development scientist. 310 00:41:17,470 --> 00:41:19,120 Emily Zhou: I did a lot of research. 311 00:41:19,370 --> 00:41:21,660 Emily Zhou: I know it's a long way still. 312 00:41:22,350 --> 00:41:27,180 Emily Zhou: And for controlled environment agriculture, there's a lot of things we still don't know. 313 00:41:27,420 --> 00:41:43,700 Emily Zhou: That's the reason I went back to academia because the indoor vertical farm industry has been experiencing, if you know, in the past few years, a lot of difficulties— bankruptcies one by one—because 314 00:41:43,720 --> 00:42:10,740 Emily Zhou: we don't know enough. And my idea is going back to academia being a professor. I see a lot of growers, a lot of farmers, a lot of even technicians, they don't know the basic things for controlled environment agriculture. It is industry together with plant science and engineering. Plant scientists and engineers have two different languages. 315 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,060 Emily Zhou: Engineers—they want to have a universal system. 316 00:42:15,230 --> 00:42:19,220 Emily Zhou: You can grow all plants, all plant stages. 317 00:42:19,900 --> 00:42:26,740 Emily Zhou: But for plant scientists, we say it's impossible because each of them requires different conditions. 318 00:42:27,380 --> 00:42:31,000 Emily Zhou: So my job now, I do all types of research. 319 00:42:31,260 --> 00:42:32,280 Emily Zhou: I'm a plant scientist. 320 00:42:32,619 --> 00:42:33,660 Emily Zhou: I'm a horticulturist. 321 00:42:33,940 --> 00:42:35,780 Emily Zhou: So I do ornamentals. 322 00:42:35,839 --> 00:42:39,260 Emily Zhou: I also do vegetables and fruits. 323 00:42:40,119 --> 00:42:43,359 Emily Zhou: And so I do controlled environment agriculture research. 324 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:48,580 Emily Zhou: But if it's favorable, like I get support, I would like to continue. 325 00:42:48,710 --> 00:42:54,860 Emily Zhou: So the peony work, it is lifelong, as well as controlled environment agriculture. 326 00:42:55,090 --> 00:42:57,080 Emily Zhou: So we all learn something new. 327 00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:58,660 Emily Zhou: So it's science. 328 00:42:58,880 --> 00:42:59,000 Emily Zhou: Yeah. 329 00:42:59,050 --> 00:43:17,080 Ping Yu: So basically with your knowledge and experience in both backgrounds— engineering and horticulture—I guess CEA, controlled environment agriculture, is the best fit for you to shine with all your knowledge and skill. And who knows, you may come up with a brand new idea of 330 00:43:18,460 --> 00:43:29,220 Ping Yu: growing peonies in CEAs and then shorten the production cycle significantly and help growers make tons of money. 331 00:43:29,980 --> 00:43:32,160 Ping Yu: By adapting your technology. 332 00:43:32,570 --> 00:43:32,960 Ping Yu: Who knows? 333 00:43:33,790 --> 00:43:34,920 Ping Yu: No one knows what's gonna happen. 334 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,860 Emily Zhou: Yeah, I just tested a few plant growth regulators. 335 00:43:39,140 --> 00:43:41,360 Emily Zhou: Plant growth regulators are one big group. 336 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,540 Emily Zhou: Some of them, I haven't tried yet. 337 00:43:44,740 --> 00:43:51,780 Ping Yu: So with that in mind, if people want to find out more about your research, where do you recommend they go and look for more? 338 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:59,100 Emily Zhou: If some of the growers listened to our talk, if they are interested, we can do a collaboration. 339 00:43:59,660 --> 00:44:03,800 Emily Zhou: I have students and I have space. I can do the work. 340 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,440 Emily Zhou: Yeah, if somebody's interested in that, you can find me. 341 00:44:08,860 --> 00:44:13,240 Ping Yu: What would be the best way for people to follow your work? 342 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:23,520 Emily Zhou: I have LinkedIn and people can find me or go to the University of Central Missouri page. 343 00:44:23,570 --> 00:44:25,580 Emily Zhou: I am in the Department of Agriculture. 344 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:26,580 Ping Yu: Okay. 345 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:27,120 Ping Yu: Yeah. 346 00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:27,740 Ping Yu: Sounds great. 347 00:44:27,870 --> 00:44:30,080 Ping Yu: Thank you, Dr. Zhou, for joining us today. 348 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:31,420 Ping Yu: This is great. 349 00:44:31,790 --> 00:44:32,900 Ping Yu: And I... 350 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,700 Ping Yu: Thank you for taking your time to talk with us today. 351 00:44:37,359 --> 00:44:50,279 Ping Yu: As always, I'll make sure that I put the links and some of the work that you sent me in the show notes so that people can learn more about this topic and any other topic that we feature on this show. 352 00:44:50,579 --> 00:44:51,980 Ping Yu: Again, thank you so much. 353 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:54,260 Ping Yu: Thank you for listening. 354 00:44:54,500 --> 00:44:56,960 Ping Yu: Till the next time, stay healthy and go plants! 355 00:44:57,619 --> 00:44:58,660 Ping Yu: Thank you. Bye. 356 00:44:59,160 --> 00:44:59,520 Emily Zhou: Pleasure. 357 00:44:59,829 --> 00:45:00,180 Emily Zhou: Thank you. 358 00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:13,380 Ping Yu: Besides the resources that our guest speaker provided us today, AFE also provides additional resources for this topic. 359 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:19,119 Ping Yu: Just go to DLI Maps and they also have a free DLI poster. 360 00:45:19,740 --> 00:45:23,720 Ping Yu: And again, I will add all the links in the show notes to save you time. 361 00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:24,500 Ping Yu: Go check it out.