1 00:00:04,700 --> 00:00:09,660 Ping Yu: The Blooms and Beyond podcast, a podcast that uncovers plant history, culture, and management 2 00:00:09,790 --> 00:00:14,080 Ping Yu: through the lens of science. I'm your host, Ping. How's everyone doing today? I am doing 3 00:00:14,220 --> 00:00:22,660 Ping Yu: great because here I have one of my fellow horticulturists, a previous Bulldawg, and my colleague 4 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:27,460 Ping Yu: and friend, Dr. Ryan Contreras from Oregon State University joining me today. 5 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:33,500 Ping Yu: And we're going to talk about one of the, I think, very important topics about applied 6 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,860 Ping Yu: breeding techniques, especially for ornamental. 7 00:00:37,780 --> 00:00:42,420 Ping Yu: So I know he has tons of knowledge and story to share, so I don't want to steal any more 8 00:00:42,500 --> 00:00:43,540 Ping Yu: thunder from the speaker today. 9 00:00:43,660 --> 00:00:45,000 Ping Yu: Let's just jump right into it. 10 00:00:45,300 --> 00:00:47,960 Ping Yu: Without further ado, here is my conversation with... 11 00:00:47,900 --> 00:00:49,940 Ping Yu: Dr. Ryan Contreras. I hope you enjoy. 12 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,640 Ping Yu: So, hi Ryan. Welcome to the podcast. But first, let's start off with the 13 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,020 Ping Yu: introduction. Can you tell our audience a little bit about who you are and what 14 00:01:01,020 --> 00:01:04,800 Ping Yu: you do? Ryan Contreras: Good morning, Ping. I appreciate the 15 00:01:04,980 --> 00:01:06,600 Ryan Contreras: opportunity to get to speak with you today. 16 00:01:07,340 --> 00:01:11,180 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, I am a professor at Oregon State University and 17 00:01:11,180 --> 00:01:14,400 Ryan Contreras: I have been here since December 2009. 18 00:01:14,900 --> 00:01:17,880 Ryan Contreras: I came straight from Tifton, Georgia. 19 00:01:18,420 --> 00:01:21,440 Ryan Contreras: So I did my PhD with John Ruter. 20 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:27,700 Ryan Contreras: So I spent three terms finishing up coursework in Athens and getting started on research 21 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,920 Ryan Contreras: before I spent two years down in Tifton. 22 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,180 Ryan Contreras: Some of your listeners are probably familiar with that and with that location. 23 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,840 Ryan Contreras: I was really fortunate to get to work with Dr. Ruter. 24 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:46,980 Ryan Contreras: I had a lot of leeway and it was a really great opportunity to, I think, prepare without 25 00:01:47,220 --> 00:01:54,160 Ryan Contreras: being a postdoc, but to prepare for the complete free reign of being a new professor. 26 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,740 Ryan Contreras: So when you start as a professor, there's not anyone there to hold your hand and tell 27 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:00,460 Ryan Contreras: you what to do. 28 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:06,640 Ryan Contreras: So this was a good opportunity working with Dr. Ruter. He gave me some guidelines as far as we're going to work on 29 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:08,140 Ryan Contreras: these crops 30 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:13,700 Ryan Contreras: But I got to do a lot of different things and so that was really exciting and plus when he was down there at his 31 00:02:13,980 --> 00:02:18,180 Ryan Contreras: program, it was one of the great plant collections, especially conifers in the Southeast 32 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,640 Ryan Contreras: And of course, it doesn't exist anymore. But anyway, that was a really great opportunity 33 00:02:23,700 --> 00:02:29,120 Ryan Contreras: Before I was in Georgia, I did my bachelor's and master's at North Carolina State 34 00:02:29,500 --> 00:02:37,400 Ryan Contreras: I did my master's with Tom Ranney and again was at an off-campus location to do my research there. 35 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:42,700 Ryan Contreras: And of course Dr. Ranney leads a really large program up in Mills River, North Carolina. 36 00:02:43,500 --> 00:02:47,740 Ryan Contreras: I'm maybe a little bit of an outlier as far as breeding goes. 37 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:53,300 Ryan Contreras: Many folks when they come through, you tend to bounce around and I would say 38 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,420 Ryan Contreras: probably fewer folks are still working on the same crop that they started with. 39 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:05,160 Ryan Contreras: But I'm super fortunate that during my undergraduate, toward the end of my undergraduate degree, 40 00:03:05,290 --> 00:03:08,840 Ryan Contreras: I got to work with Denny Werner, who was working on Buddleja. 41 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,780 Ryan Contreras: And so I started, you know, that was my first exposure to plant breeding. 42 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:19,860 Ryan Contreras: And so I worked with Denny, who I'll give a quick plug, this is also a Georgia connection, 43 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,739 Ryan Contreras: but Dr. Shyam Tallury is a cytogeneticist. 44 00:03:23,500 --> 00:03:28,580 Ryan Contreras: And he was previously at NC State, and that's where I was working with him. 45 00:03:29,099 --> 00:03:34,660 Ryan Contreras: And he now is the curator of the peanut collection at the USDA in Griffin. 46 00:03:35,100 --> 00:03:40,280 Ryan Contreras: which is fun. But he put me in touch with Shyam. I worked in peanut genetics for a couple years. 47 00:03:40,460 --> 00:03:45,860 Ryan Contreras: But then since then, when I worked with Tom and then working with Dr. Ruter and then now here, 48 00:03:45,900 --> 00:03:52,420 Ryan Contreras: I've been working on ornamentals, woody plants, basically my entire career other than two years in peanut genetics. 49 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:57,660 Ryan Contreras: So I think that's probably enough rambling about where I came from. 50 00:03:57,780 --> 00:03:59,020 Ryan Contreras: I'm a North Carolina guy. 51 00:03:59,020 --> 00:04:01,720 Ryan Contreras: I come from the beach of North Carolina. 52 00:04:02,260 --> 00:04:07,520 Ryan Contreras: So being in Oregon, it does fit me, but it's pretty far away from where I started out. 53 00:04:07,740 --> 00:04:14,260 Ping Yu: I was going to say, if you're from North Carolina, I mean, it's basically opposite. 54 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:20,140 Ping Yu: But well, temperature wise, well, it's not that extreme different in Oregon. 55 00:04:20,900 --> 00:04:23,020 Ping Yu: Great place to live. 56 00:04:23,780 --> 00:04:31,820 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, it is interesting. I'm up near the 45th parallel here, but we're actually a Zone 8 where I am in the Willamette Valley. 57 00:04:32,540 --> 00:04:37,539 Ryan Contreras: We're a very different Zone 8 than where I was in Tifton, Georgia. 58 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:38,100 Ping Yu: Of course. 59 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,840 Ryan Contreras: you know, with the amount of heat is vastly different. 60 00:04:41,140 --> 00:04:46,300 Ryan Contreras: But it actually, yeah, we're more temperate here than even in eastern North Carolina where I'm from. 61 00:04:47,060 --> 00:04:50,920 Ryan Contreras: So it's a good place to grow trees. We get cool and we generally stay cool and 62 00:04:51,660 --> 00:04:52,660 Ryan Contreras: yeah, it's a good place. 63 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:57,520 Ping Yu: Yeah, and I know that you mentioned a lot of names throughout your 64 00:04:57,700 --> 00:05:04,980 Ping Yu: trajectory and I have to tell you those are great breeders, researchers themselves, but also 65 00:05:05,220 --> 00:05:12,080 Ping Yu: apparently a great mentor because they give you all those techniques and soft skills even 66 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:19,760 Ping Yu: that you normally don't get from grad school and those skills are actually the ones that 67 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:21,140 Ping Yu: make you successful. 68 00:05:21,700 --> 00:05:24,840 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, there's a much longer list. 69 00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:25,420 Ping Yu: Yeah. 70 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:30,760 Ryan Contreras: And if I could give one piece of advice if you have graduate students that are some of 71 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:37,140 Ryan Contreras: your listeners, which I'm sure there are, is take advantage of the folks that are willing 72 00:05:37,140 --> 00:05:39,860 Ryan Contreras: to give you their time and listen to them. 73 00:05:40,100 --> 00:05:44,000 Ryan Contreras: Again, the list of mentors is far longer. 74 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,780 Ryan Contreras: At NC State, I was around Craig Yencho, who is a legendary sweet potato breeder. 75 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,820 Ryan Contreras: I learned a lot from Paul Fantz in teaching plant ID. 76 00:05:53,220 --> 00:05:59,540 Ryan Contreras: And at Georgia, Wayne Hanna is, again, he's been around and basically had three different 77 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:00,020 Ryan Contreras: careers. 78 00:06:00,900 --> 00:06:05,460 Ryan Contreras: reinvented himself in different crops and, yeah, learned a lot from him and Dr. 79 00:06:05,660 --> 00:06:10,280 Ryan Contreras: Peggy, as I say, Ozias-Akins. Yeah, there's just a massive amount of people, and what I 80 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:16,360 Ryan Contreras: think what often maybe gets left off of the or who gets left off of the the the 81 00:06:16,479 --> 00:06:19,560 Ryan Contreras: thank you list is the technicians, man. That 82 00:06:19,900 --> 00:06:25,639 Ryan Contreras: If you want to learn how to grow the stuff and how the day-to-day actually happens, 83 00:06:26,020 --> 00:06:34,060 Ryan Contreras: Nathan Lynch and Joel Mowrey and Tom Eaker at NC State were the ones who were doing it on the day-to-day basis when I was there. 84 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:40,860 Ryan Contreras: And Nancy Hand and the other folks down in Georgia, yeah, I learned a ton from them. 85 00:06:41,300 --> 00:06:49,900 Ryan Contreras: And another thing that I'll say is that you get to observe management styles and talk to those folks a lot. 86 00:06:50,569 --> 00:06:55,180 Ryan Contreras: You get to learn what works and what doesn't work from a management standpoint. 87 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,300 Ryan Contreras: So that's, yeah, there's... 88 00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:02,780 Ryan Contreras: Getting to this stage, there's a lot of folks to say thanks to. 89 00:07:02,840 --> 00:07:03,940 Ping Yu: Yeah, I am with you. 90 00:07:06,639 --> 00:07:11,879 Ping Yu: So, anyhow, Ryan, I've known you for a couple of years already. 91 00:07:12,379 --> 00:07:15,440 Ping Yu: What first sparked your interest in horticulture in general? 92 00:07:15,479 --> 00:07:18,800 Ping Yu: Do you see yourself as a nature kid growing up? 93 00:07:18,940 --> 00:07:22,180 Ping Yu: Because we know you started your breeding, or ornamental breeding, 94 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,639 Ping Yu: towards the end of your college or bachelor's degree. 95 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:31,120 Ping Yu: Before that, how did you, do you know if horticulture is a thing? 96 00:07:32,140 --> 00:07:39,220 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, so I grew up, when I was a kid we had Coastal Bermuda hay, we had hogs and rabbits, 97 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,080 Ryan Contreras: and I actually grew up with, there were 32,000 laying hens. 98 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:48,360 Ryan Contreras: So it was chicken houses before automation, so it was picking up by hand. 99 00:07:49,639 --> 00:07:55,740 Ryan Contreras: And all sorts of diversified farming on a small to modest scale. 100 00:07:56,910 --> 00:08:02,039 Ryan Contreras: So I grew up in that fashion. I was in an ag program when I was in high school, 101 00:08:02,419 --> 00:08:08,440 Ryan Contreras: and I had a really great example who wasn't my sister, but was basically my sister. 102 00:08:08,470 --> 00:08:12,600 Ryan Contreras: If you're from the South, this is how it is. She was family, but not family. 103 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:19,240 Ryan Contreras: And she had gone to NC State and got a degree in Ag Ed and Extension, got a master's degree. 104 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,220 Ryan Contreras: And so I saw that as a really great career path. 105 00:08:23,820 --> 00:08:29,200 Ryan Contreras: And I think like many folks who, if you come from an Ag, you know, a school that has an 106 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,460 Ryan Contreras: Ag program, I think there's a lot of greenhouses that are being used as greenhouses. 107 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:38,240 Ryan Contreras: So I had that and desire to... 108 00:08:38,599 --> 00:08:44,839 Ryan Contreras: I wanted to go become the ag teacher, move back to Beaufort, go to East Carteret, be 109 00:08:44,940 --> 00:08:48,560 Ryan Contreras: the ag teacher, and actually develop a horticulture program. 110 00:08:49,500 --> 00:08:52,040 Ryan Contreras: So I thought that would be a really rewarding career path. 111 00:08:52,740 --> 00:08:59,459 Ryan Contreras: So I started in ag ed and extension, and during my, I think it was my second semester, I was 112 00:08:59,519 --> 00:09:05,839 Ryan Contreras: taking animal science and all of these other metalworking and things that I, it was fine. 113 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:11,860 Ryan Contreras: But then I took my first horticulture class and anybody who's from NC State knows Bryce 114 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:17,240 Ryan Contreras: Lane and Bryce is a super charismatic, compelling, amazing instructor. 115 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:23,640 Ryan Contreras: And after I took Bryce's class, I said, "Yeah, the other stuff is fine. 116 00:09:24,020 --> 00:09:25,680 Ryan Contreras: This is what I want to do." 117 00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:28,520 Ryan Contreras: And so then I transferred into horticultural science. 118 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:34,860 Ryan Contreras: And after that, for a long time I thought I wanted to be a grower. 119 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:40,240 Ryan Contreras: And I have a great story about why I decided to move from that. 120 00:09:40,340 --> 00:09:45,520 Ryan Contreras: I was working at a nursery in Apex, North Carolina, outside of Raleigh, called Chewning 121 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,460 Ryan Contreras: Nursery, specialized in evergreen azaleas. 122 00:09:48,900 --> 00:09:55,460 Ryan Contreras: And fantastic operator, fantastic nursery. I learned so much working there. 123 00:09:56,260 --> 00:10:02,420 Ryan Contreras: But every summer, the owner, it was a small, small as far as there was only like four or five employees. 124 00:10:03,300 --> 00:10:04,520 Ryan Contreras: And, but every summer. 125 00:10:04,900 --> 00:10:11,500 Ryan Contreras: The owner and his partner, they would leave and go down to Wrightsville Beach for a beach 126 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:12,300 Ryan Contreras: volleyball tournament. 127 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:19,300 Ryan Contreras: And during that time, it's like August in North Carolina in the Piedmont, so insanely 128 00:10:19,460 --> 00:10:27,600 Ryan Contreras: hot and I realized that basically I was the only thing standing between kind of financial 129 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:29,680 Ryan Contreras: ruin and this guy. 130 00:10:29,900 --> 00:10:30,140 Ryan Contreras: So. 131 00:10:30,500 --> 00:10:38,580 Ryan Contreras: To me, I couldn't deal with the stress of being chained to the nursery that hard and 132 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:43,720 Ryan Contreras: then having to turn it over because I was a college kid and I was probably more responsible 133 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,960 Ryan Contreras: than most, but at the same time, I, you know. 134 00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:50,580 Ryan Contreras: It just, that stressed me out. 135 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,760 Ryan Contreras: And that cured me of wanting to be an owner/operator of a nursery. 136 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,540 Ryan Contreras: So I actually got interested in, started getting interested in research. 137 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:04,620 Ryan Contreras: And the first research that I thought sounded interesting was weed science. 138 00:11:04,700 --> 00:11:09,820 Ryan Contreras: I thought that was fascinating, that you could conduct a career in research that would help 139 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:10,420 Ryan Contreras: solve 140 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,980 Ryan Contreras: especially at that time when I was out weeding all day, every day. 141 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:18,420 Ryan Contreras: I thought that was just the bee's knees. 142 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,320 Ryan Contreras: I then went and again toward the end of my career, 143 00:11:21,420 --> 00:11:24,279 Ryan Contreras: I did my internship at a really interesting place. 144 00:11:24,339 --> 00:11:26,040 Ryan Contreras: I was at Arizona State University, 145 00:11:26,279 --> 00:11:30,240 Ryan Contreras: the Center for Study of Early Events in Photosynthesis with Ken Hoober. 146 00:11:30,980 --> 00:11:33,560 Ryan Contreras: And it was completely basic science. 147 00:11:33,900 --> 00:11:38,840 Ryan Contreras: we were radio labeling protein constituents and figuring out where these light-harvesting 148 00:11:39,140 --> 00:11:44,420 Ryan Contreras: complex proteins were being assembled. I learned a lot of lab technique, but more importantly, 149 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:52,840 Ryan Contreras: I learned that what I wanted to do was not be in the lab 100% of the time in a windowless room 150 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:54,300 Ryan Contreras: radio labeling proteins. 151 00:11:54,700 --> 00:11:57,940 Ryan Contreras: So that's when I came back and then I got working with Denny. 152 00:11:58,060 --> 00:11:59,400 Ryan Contreras: I'm like a little bit of a hybrid. 153 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:04,040 Ryan Contreras: Like I don't have, I think I'm a little jealous of those folks that have the origin story. 154 00:12:04,220 --> 00:12:10,960 Ryan Contreras: That's just really beautiful. My grandpa got me interested in petunias and this and that. 155 00:12:11,140 --> 00:12:15,660 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, a little bit of a circuitous route, but yeah, I come from agriculture and... 156 00:12:15,660 --> 00:12:20,620 Ping Yu: But I think it's a great example of horticulture is part of the... 157 00:12:20,700 --> 00:12:27,560 Ping Yu: agriculture and I actually talked to one of the ag teachers and I was just 158 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:33,940 Ping Yu: amazed how the education in ag program can really change some people's life 159 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,960 Ping Yu: and people just don't realize it. 160 00:12:38,820 --> 00:12:45,040 Ping Yu: But anyhow let's talk about breeding because you like you said you have 161 00:12:45,100 --> 00:12:46,420 Ping Yu: worked with different people. 162 00:12:46,900 --> 00:12:50,620 Ping Yu: from row crops, economic crops like peanut, 163 00:12:51,020 --> 00:12:54,960 Ping Yu: and then working with ornamental breeders and all that. 164 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,240 Ping Yu: So can you give us a overview of some of the 165 00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:02,980 Ping Yu: applied technologies that has been used for breeding? 166 00:13:03,540 --> 00:13:06,260 Ping Yu: And we know ornamental can be a little bit different 167 00:13:06,380 --> 00:13:09,520 Ping Yu: because some of the techniques are not going to be used 168 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:10,740 Ping Yu: in ornamental. 169 00:13:10,900 --> 00:13:17,820 Ping Yu: But just to give us an overview of the breeding techniques that you have learned over the years, 170 00:13:18,340 --> 00:13:21,440 Ping Yu: and then we can talk more about the ornamental part. 171 00:13:22,620 --> 00:13:28,960 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, I guess I'd start with breeding essentially is not a very complex science. 172 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:37,080 Ryan Contreras: Its essential nature of breeding is observing variation and then choosing something that's 173 00:13:37,060 --> 00:13:40,040 Ryan Contreras: better for whatever trait is of interest. 174 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:46,000 Ryan Contreras: Yogi Berra, I think, he has all these great quotes, but Yogi Berra said, "You can learn 175 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,180 Ryan Contreras: a lot, or you can see a lot just by looking," or something like that. 176 00:13:49,740 --> 00:13:55,340 Ryan Contreras: And I mentioned Wayne Hanna, his first publication, this was back in the day, but his first publication 177 00:13:55,540 --> 00:14:01,420 Ryan Contreras: was in Science, and it was, I forget what the phenomenon was, but it was literally, 178 00:14:01,620 --> 00:14:05,980 Ryan Contreras: he just was observant in a greenhouse and noticed something different in these maize 179 00:14:06,060 --> 00:14:08,140 Ryan Contreras: plants than what was typically going on. 180 00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:14,640 Ryan Contreras: Really, the most basic part of plant breeding and really what it is essentially is creating 181 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,060 Ryan Contreras: variation and then choosing plants from that variation. 182 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:24,820 Ryan Contreras: There's obviously all kinds of different ways to create variation and lots of different 183 00:14:25,220 --> 00:14:25,540 Ryan Contreras: techniques. 184 00:14:26,100 --> 00:14:30,360 Ryan Contreras: as far as, and it's different for self-pollinated crops versus outcrossers. 185 00:14:30,620 --> 00:14:36,160 Ryan Contreras: I don't know that it's worth, and I'm certainly, I'm not a, I'm not the person to give a techniques 186 00:14:36,709 --> 00:14:42,480 Ryan Contreras: lecture on plant breeding, but the most common way that we create variation is during sexual 187 00:14:42,579 --> 00:14:47,459 Ryan Contreras: recombination. So when you make a cross or you collect seed, those plants, unless they're 188 00:14:47,579 --> 00:14:53,259 Ryan Contreras: apomictic, have undergone some sexual recombination. Then we grow out those populations and look at those. 189 00:14:53,700 --> 00:14:58,720 Ryan Contreras: the most common and easiest way to improve plants. 190 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,720 Ryan Contreras: We often hybridize good by good. 191 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,380 Ryan Contreras: So you're crossing elite by elite. 192 00:15:04,940 --> 00:15:09,040 Ryan Contreras: And elite doesn't necessarily mean in every way, shape, or form. 193 00:15:09,500 --> 00:15:28,660 Ryan Contreras: So for instance, I've done some work in Cotoneaster and my "elite by elite" often is I take something that works well in production, has a good shape, is otherwise good, and preferred by the industry, but it may lack fire blight resistance. 194 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,540 Ryan Contreras: So we've done this very thing where we then cross with something that has fire blight resistance, 195 00:15:33,780 --> 00:15:39,300 Ryan Contreras: trying to get that good shape and form for the industry, but incorporating disease resistance. 196 00:15:40,220 --> 00:15:45,620 Ryan Contreras: Let's see, I don't know what they're... So hybridization, open pollinated things, 197 00:15:45,860 --> 00:15:50,080 Ryan Contreras: just taking advantage of natural genetic recombination is still going to be the most common. 198 00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:55,780 Ryan Contreras: We use a lot of other techniques to incorporate or induce variation. 199 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:57,940 Ryan Contreras: I use a lot of ploidy manipulation, 200 00:15:58,420 --> 00:16:03,180 Ryan Contreras: so that's just doubling or changing the number of copy of chromosome sets. 201 00:16:04,260 --> 00:16:10,740 Ryan Contreras: So the most common reason for doing that in my program is to develop seedless forms. 202 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,680 Ryan Contreras: So bananas are triploids and that renders them seedless, 203 00:16:14,740 --> 00:16:16,940 Ryan Contreras: so we're trying to do that on a lot of nursery crops. 204 00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:24,959 Ryan Contreras: We do a lot of mutagenesis. There's non-targeted mutagenesis, which we use much more commonly. 205 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:33,200 Ryan Contreras: And you can use chemicals like ethyl methanesulfonate, which is EMS, or physical mutagens like x-rays or gamma rays. 206 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,560 Ryan Contreras: I'm fortunate that here on campus we have a radiation center and they have a number 207 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:44,399 Ryan Contreras: of different, they have fast neutrons and other sorts, but we use a cobalt source that 208 00:16:44,459 --> 00:16:46,140 Ryan Contreras: is, it gives off gamma radiation. 209 00:16:46,820 --> 00:16:50,640 Ryan Contreras: We have a source here and we, it's, you don't know what you're going to get. 210 00:16:50,860 --> 00:16:51,660 Ryan Contreras: So the, the. 211 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,820 Ryan Contreras: The Forrest Gump, life is like a box of chocolates. 212 00:16:54,930 --> 00:16:56,160 Ryan Contreras: We never know what we're going to get. 213 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,480 Ryan Contreras: We're just taking a shotgun and pointing it and 214 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:04,060 Ryan Contreras: blasting and then growing out populations of those looking for useful variation. 215 00:17:04,939 --> 00:17:11,380 Ryan Contreras: Then more advanced techniques now as we are learning more about genomes and we have gene targets, 216 00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:13,860 Ryan Contreras: we can do targeted editing. 217 00:17:14,439 --> 00:17:19,860 Ryan Contreras: There's traditional transgenics and all of those sorts of technologies are still available. 218 00:17:20,300 --> 00:17:25,320 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, I guess I didn't mention tissue culture, but that's certainly an important part of those 219 00:17:26,390 --> 00:17:30,600 Ryan Contreras: of the more advanced techniques for gene editing or for transgenics. That's maybe 220 00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:38,000 Ryan Contreras: you know aside from self-pollination or cross-pollinating and apomixis and there's other sexual 221 00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:47,620 Ryan Contreras: like sex expression. The ability to conduct tissue culture or regeneration from undifferentiated 222 00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:54,060 Ryan Contreras: callus is a major difference between our woody plants and many agronomic crops. 223 00:17:54,500 --> 00:18:00,960 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, we don't have the capacity to regenerate a lot of our plants from that undifferentiated callus. 224 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,900 Ryan Contreras: So that regeneration has become our bottleneck. 225 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:10,100 Ryan Contreras: That, in addition, we just have studied many of our plants a lot less. 226 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:15,740 Ryan Contreras: corn, cotton, soy, wheat, all of those things, they've been sequenced and sequenced and we've 227 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:21,660 Ryan Contreras: got high level, high quality, chromosome level genome assemblies and so we've got all of 228 00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:25,560 Ryan Contreras: these gene targets and we just know a lot less about our woody plants. 229 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,860 Ryan Contreras: I don't know, Ping, I've rambled for a bit. 230 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:29,400 Ping Yu: I think you got most of the... 231 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,500 Ping Yu: You pretty much drew a big picture of the ornamental. 232 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,860 Ping Yu: It's not comparable because for some of the economic crops, 233 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,800 Ping Yu: like you mentioned, the row crops, soybean, maize, and other crops. 234 00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:44,260 Ping Yu: they're only working on one plant. 235 00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:48,020 Ping Yu: And look at us, we just have so many different plants 236 00:18:48,020 --> 00:18:50,480 Ping Yu: to work with, so it's not our fault. 237 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,440 Ping Yu: It's actually a good opportunity for us to explore more. 238 00:18:54,179 --> 00:18:58,640 Ping Yu: So what I'm hearing now is from the plant breeding techniques 239 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,820 Ping Yu: We typically have two categories. 240 00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:04,500 Ping Yu: The traditional one would be the sexual, 241 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,280 Ping Yu: either crossing, hybridizing, and mass selection. 242 00:19:08,780 --> 00:19:11,580 Ping Yu: Those are categories as the traditional one, 243 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,440 Ping Yu: where, like you said, you just go out and observe 244 00:19:14,450 --> 00:19:16,700 Ping Yu: and then select the varieties which 245 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:24,260 Ping Yu: ever fit your goal to select the plant. And the second one would be like more modern or advanced 246 00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:31,800 Ping Yu: techniques including the marker and genome editing and mutation like you mentioned. Maybe tissue 247 00:19:31,860 --> 00:19:37,120 Ping Yu: culture may be part of that too. But in terms of because I remember before our recording you 248 00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:44,220 Ping Yu: said for some of the row crops they do and even vegetables they do like for instance backcross. 249 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,580 Ping Yu: But we're not using that in ornamental. 250 00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:54,840 Ping Yu: Can you tell us a little bit on that why we are not using backcross breeding that often in ornamental? 251 00:19:55,140 --> 00:19:57,140 Ryan Contreras: Backcrossing is actually... 252 00:19:57,380 --> 00:20:03,520 Ryan Contreras: So, in fact, I have four new hibiscus cultivars that are being released now. 253 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:08,200 Ryan Contreras: One reason that we might not use backcross in the most essential sense is 254 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,180 Ryan Contreras: woody ornamentals tend to suffer from inbreeding depression. 255 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:17,440 Ryan Contreras: And so we're always trying, they're highly heterozygous and many crops won't self-pollinate. 256 00:20:17,559 --> 00:20:23,480 Ryan Contreras: So hibiscus is, Hibiscus syriacus is one that most cultivars have a very low, low rate of 257 00:20:23,799 --> 00:20:24,360 Ryan Contreras: self-pollination. 258 00:20:24,559 --> 00:20:27,940 Ryan Contreras: So even if you do self them, you get few or no seeds. 259 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,780 Ryan Contreras: And if you do get any, they tend to be a little bit weaker. 260 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:32,760 Ryan Contreras: So we typically are not going to. 261 00:20:33,100 --> 00:20:39,660 Ryan Contreras: I take cultivar X, cross it with Y, and then take that progeny and backcross it to cultivar X. 262 00:20:40,340 --> 00:20:45,700 Ryan Contreras: But there's like a, I'm calling it the pseudo-backcross that we're using with these hibiscus 263 00:20:46,059 --> 00:20:52,419 Ryan Contreras: cultivars where we're taking hybrids of Hibiscus syriacus and Hibiscus paramutabilis that were 264 00:20:52,539 --> 00:20:57,960 Ryan Contreras: already in existence and then we're doing what I'm again calling this sort of pseudo-backcross, 265 00:20:57,980 --> 00:21:01,100 Ryan Contreras: back crossing to Hibiscus syriacus to improve. 266 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,660 Ryan Contreras: the cold hardiness of those. 267 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,620 Ryan Contreras: And so we've now got these tree-form hibiscus 268 00:21:06,740 --> 00:21:08,960 Ryan Contreras: that are really vigorous and they grow like trees, 269 00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:11,420 Ryan Contreras: but they have a little improved hardiness 270 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,880 Ryan Contreras: over those previously released cultivars of 271 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,480 Ryan Contreras: Tosca, Lohengrin, and Resi. 272 00:21:16,860 --> 00:21:19,600 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, but primarily, you don't want to... 273 00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:23,880 Ryan Contreras: You don't want to keep a narrow genetic base when you're working in woody plants. 274 00:21:23,980 --> 00:21:25,940 Ryan Contreras: They typically suffer from inbreeding depression. 275 00:21:26,139 --> 00:21:29,899 Ryan Contreras: Backcrossing to one of the parents is going to continue narrowing that 276 00:21:29,899 --> 00:21:31,820 Ryan Contreras: and you're likely going to get inbreeding depression. 277 00:21:32,039 --> 00:21:36,860 Ping Yu: Yeah, so for folks who is wondering what is backcrossing, 278 00:21:36,919 --> 00:21:41,399 Ping Yu: it is actually a process where you make a cross of a hybrid, 279 00:21:41,580 --> 00:21:45,720 Ping Yu: which is the offspring with one of its parents. 280 00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:48,800 Ping Yu: that's just put out there so people would understand more. 281 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,240 Ping Yu: So when you as a breeder, especially a woody breeder, 282 00:21:56,380 --> 00:21:58,700 Ping Yu: that you work a lot on woody plant breeding, 283 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:00,600 Ping Yu: when you start a breeding program, 284 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,200 Ping Yu: where does the idea usually come from? 285 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,300 Ping Yu: Is that from a grower problem, a market gap, 286 00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:08,900 Ping Yu: or just your personal curiosity? 287 00:22:09,060 --> 00:22:11,720 Ping Yu: Probably it's a combination of all those, 288 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,160 Ping Yu: but can you give us an example of that? 289 00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:21,300 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, that is, it's great. It's the most fun part, I think, actually, is like coming up with the ideas. 290 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:27,320 Ryan Contreras: In my program, we're not the largest, but we're, I think, one of the more diverse. 291 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:34,540 Ryan Contreras: We have germplasm and small projects, at least, on close to 50 genera. 292 00:22:35,340 --> 00:22:39,500 Ryan Contreras: And, yeah, the ideas, they do, they come from all of those places. 293 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:46,120 Ryan Contreras: I'll give you... so for 14 years I taught plant ID and just recently have stopped doing that. 294 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:54,720 Ryan Contreras: But one of the plants that I taught, that I taught it just because it was nearby, was Kolkwitzia amabilis. 295 00:22:55,460 --> 00:22:56,060 Ryan Contreras: And... 296 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,659 Ryan Contreras: I taught it. We didn't have a good specimen on campus. 297 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,779 Ryan Contreras: I literally taught it. There was a seven-foot-tall privacy fence, 298 00:23:04,380 --> 00:23:08,320 Ryan Contreras: and the plant was climbing over it and would come down onto the sidewalk. 299 00:23:08,460 --> 00:23:10,220 Ryan Contreras: It's where we could access it on the sidewalk. 300 00:23:11,340 --> 00:23:14,299 Ryan Contreras: But it's a plant that's been around for a long time. 301 00:23:14,779 --> 00:23:16,760 Ryan Contreras: It's really hardy, bulletproof. 302 00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:20,840 Ryan Contreras: We call it elk-proof because you'll find it in these old homesteads. 303 00:23:21,100 --> 00:23:26,380 Ryan Contreras: but it was just giant. It just needed to be smaller. Another example I got here, I had not 304 00:23:26,580 --> 00:23:32,440 Ryan Contreras: really encountered flowering currant, but man it flowers in the spring or in the early spring. It's 305 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:37,140 Ryan Contreras: one of the, it's kind of like forsythia. It's the harbinger of spring. And Ribes sanguineum is just 306 00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:44,380 Ryan Contreras: gorgeous, but then after it flowers it's just leggy. And so those are examples where I'm just noticing 307 00:23:45,100 --> 00:23:50,000 Ryan Contreras: I'm a gardener as well, and so that would be great. 308 00:23:50,090 --> 00:23:53,080 Ryan Contreras: It just needs to be a little bit reined in. 309 00:23:54,380 --> 00:23:57,720 Ryan Contreras: There are other times where... Laurocerasus. 310 00:23:58,539 --> 00:23:59,760 Ryan Contreras: Huge crop, right? 311 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:05,419 Ryan Contreras: So we're the, Oregon is the number one producer of common cherry laurel, and that's one 312 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:06,380 Ryan Contreras: that growers... 313 00:24:06,500 --> 00:24:08,120 Ryan Contreras: repeatedly come to. 314 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,140 Ryan Contreras: They want to solve cherry laurel or shot hole disease, 315 00:24:11,660 --> 00:24:14,220 Ryan Contreras: and they want to solve the issue of seeds. 316 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:15,500 Ryan Contreras: Because there's out here, 317 00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:17,100 Ryan Contreras: we have western cherry fruit fly. 318 00:24:17,780 --> 00:24:20,180 Ryan Contreras: So you're limited on shipping to 319 00:24:20,420 --> 00:24:22,640 Ryan Contreras: certain states because of western cherry fruit fly. 320 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,720 Ryan Contreras: Plus, it's a bit of a weedy species. 321 00:24:25,820 --> 00:24:27,660 Ryan Contreras: That's long been a big priority. 322 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:35,080 Ryan Contreras: Similarly, maples. There are a number of really weedy species of maples. Oregon is 323 00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:39,760 Ryan Contreras: also number one in shade trees and particularly in maples and so it's 324 00:24:39,860 --> 00:24:44,960 Ryan Contreras: really economically important to our growers. There's other crops that you 325 00:24:45,059 --> 00:24:49,179 Ryan Contreras: just stumble in because they're fun and there's a lot of diversity. 326 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:56,679 Ryan Contreras: I had the opportunity to go to Santa Cruz Arboretum early in my career and I was probably 327 00:24:56,820 --> 00:25:03,780 Ryan Contreras: a hundred feet away from a Philadelphus madrensis and the fragrance from it was just insane. 328 00:25:04,299 --> 00:25:06,620 Ryan Contreras: I got up on this plant and it was incredible. 329 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,500 Ryan Contreras: So we took cuttings and brought it back. 330 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,200 Ryan Contreras: And that triggered a whole Philadelphus breeding program. 331 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,400 Ryan Contreras: You know, I'd be lying if I didn't say 332 00:25:15,700 --> 00:25:18,320 Ryan Contreras: there are times when I look at trends 333 00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:19,280 Ryan Contreras: in the nursery industry. 334 00:25:20,500 --> 00:25:23,740 Ryan Contreras: If you're chasing a current trend, you're too far behind. 335 00:25:24,420 --> 00:25:25,200 Ryan Contreras: I'll say that. 336 00:25:25,940 --> 00:25:28,300 Ryan Contreras: But there is some level of trying to predict 337 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,220 Ryan Contreras: what's going to be hot. 338 00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:31,020 Ryan Contreras: And I do that. 339 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,740 Ryan Contreras: I'm not a marketing person, but I try to observe that. 340 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,620 Ryan Contreras: But it's more talking to growers. 341 00:25:36,690 --> 00:25:38,040 Ryan Contreras: I spend a lot of time 342 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,380 Ryan Contreras: Not as much as I would like these days. I'm in my office too much. 343 00:25:42,620 --> 00:25:48,320 Ryan Contreras: But I talk to growers a lot and try to see what are their pain points. 344 00:25:49,299 --> 00:25:51,700 Ryan Contreras: Labor is a pain point and 345 00:25:51,919 --> 00:25:54,580 Ryan Contreras: it doesn't matter where you are. Labor is a pain point. 346 00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:02,299 Ryan Contreras: We do try to grow plants, or try to develop plants that are going to have fewer touches in production. 347 00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:07,299 Ryan Contreras: We have a few promising selections. We've got a... I guess I maybe shouldn't say. 348 00:26:07,580 --> 00:26:10,600 Ryan Contreras: But we have a few things that are coming out that that's really the improvement. 349 00:26:11,220 --> 00:26:18,380 Ryan Contreras: Is that they root easier, they remain more compact, and they just require fewer prunings during the production process. 350 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,600 Ryan Contreras: We are maybe... 351 00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:27,300 Ryan Contreras: My consumers, of course, we want home gardeners to enjoy our plants or 352 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:32,460 Ryan Contreras: landscapers or whatever, but really my first and most immediate stakeholders 353 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,680 Ryan Contreras: and my customers are the wholesale nursery industries. 354 00:26:37,300 --> 00:26:41,980 Ryan Contreras: It has to work for them. It doesn't matter how beautiful and gorgeous the plant is. 355 00:26:42,060 --> 00:26:46,400 Ryan Contreras: If you can't make more of it and you can't make any money on growing it, 356 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:47,960 Ryan Contreras: then it's not going to go anywhere. 357 00:26:48,740 --> 00:26:48,880 Ryan Contreras: Yeah. 358 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,640 Ryan Contreras: One more, just in my final, and I'll let you ask your next question, 359 00:26:52,740 --> 00:26:57,340 Ryan Contreras: but brands are really, have reshaped all of this. 360 00:26:57,700 --> 00:27:02,580 Ryan Contreras: So, yeah, I am trying to work with all of them. 361 00:27:03,419 --> 00:27:08,320 Ryan Contreras: So we do have some really close relationships with a couple of companies and a couple of brands. 362 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:15,860 Ryan Contreras: But I'm trying to work with everyone because we, being a public breeder, I do think I take that seriously. 363 00:27:17,019 --> 00:27:22,440 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, I want to make sure that we're helping the whole industry and not just one or two. 364 00:27:22,860 --> 00:27:25,700 Ryan Contreras: But yeah, the brands have just completely... 365 00:27:25,300 --> 00:27:30,840 Ryan Contreras: So I listen, I try to listen to those folks because they're much more savvy about what 366 00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:31,940 Ryan Contreras: sells and what doesn't. 367 00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:37,860 Ryan Contreras: Because at the end of the day, I don't make money, whether the plants sell or not, I've 368 00:27:37,860 --> 00:27:38,580 Ryan Contreras: got my salary. 369 00:27:38,940 --> 00:27:44,520 Ping Yu: Yeah, and also they have the data, the first-hand data that can tell them the popularity of 370 00:27:44,540 --> 00:27:45,320 Ping Yu: a certain plant. 371 00:27:45,780 --> 00:27:55,200 Ping Yu: And like you said, we... 372 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,640 Ping Yu: don't. You cannot, if you are predicting the... or following the current trend, 373 00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:56,540 Ping Yu: it'll be too far behind. It's really something that I call breeders. If we're 374 00:27:56,580 --> 00:28:02,480 Ping Yu: in a fashion industry, I call them the fashion designers, because especially 375 00:28:02,620 --> 00:28:06,880 Ping Yu: woody ornamentals for breeding, and if you want to create a new 376 00:28:07,500 --> 00:28:13,280 Ping Yu: cultivar that will become popular, you have to trace back to start 377 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:18,540 Ping Yu: working it maybe 10 years beforehand before it can hit to the market and 378 00:28:18,620 --> 00:28:25,500 Ping Yu: becoming the next fashion in the market so it really is a hard work and 379 00:28:25,500 --> 00:28:32,840 Ping Yu: long process, just for taking one plant out, just to make one plant to the 380 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:37,480 Ping Yu: market. 381 00:28:33,700 --> 00:28:37,919 Ryan Contreras: You know, maybe that's the good news is that it takes so long 382 00:28:38,820 --> 00:28:43,679 Ryan Contreras: but you don't really need to chase the trend, because if you've ever heard Dr. Dirr talk about the plant clock 383 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:44,139 Ping Yu: Mm-hmm. 384 00:28:44,620 --> 00:28:52,039 Ryan Contreras: you would think that it's like fashion. Like you mentioned fashion, and now the clothing from the '90s when I was in 385 00:28:52,620 --> 00:28:55,340 Ryan Contreras: high school is, like, back in fashion now. 386 00:28:55,340 --> 00:29:03,679 Ryan Contreras: So everything is gonna come back around and it takes me 17 years to release a cultivar. So 387 00:29:00,700 --> 00:29:03,620 Ryan Contreras: Who knows what's going to be hot in 17 years. 388 00:29:04,019 --> 00:29:06,260 Ryan Contreras: That's why we work on so many different crops. 389 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:07,360 Ping Yu: Yeah, yeah. 390 00:29:10,519 --> 00:29:15,399 Ping Yu: So over your career, I know you have so many different breeding programs going on, 391 00:29:15,799 --> 00:29:22,399 Ping Yu: sometimes simultaneously, but which breeding techniques have you found yourself relying on the most? 392 00:29:22,820 --> 00:29:26,279 Ping Yu: And which surprised you by being less useful? 393 00:29:27,660 --> 00:29:32,299 Ryan Contreras: Oh man, I should one day look it up and see exactly when he made this quote, but Norman 394 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,360 Ryan Contreras: Borlaug, as I say it all the time, he was asked, "How do you become a great wheat breeder?" 395 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,120 Ryan Contreras: And he says, "You go to the field, and you go to the field some more, and when the wheat 396 00:29:39,220 --> 00:29:41,600 Ryan Contreras: plants start to talk to you, you've made it." 397 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:50,380 Ryan Contreras: So the most useful techniques, far and away, in my observation, are being out there, walking 398 00:29:50,460 --> 00:29:54,679 Ryan Contreras: the plots, seeing what the plants are doing on a regular basis, not just once a year, 399 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:55,679 Ryan Contreras: but frequently. 400 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,560 Ryan Contreras: and getting input from growers. 401 00:29:59,300 --> 00:30:01,360 Ryan Contreras: Whether that's in my own plots or 402 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,500 Ryan Contreras: distributing plants under a material transfer agreement 403 00:30:04,660 --> 00:30:07,020 Ryan Contreras: and having them grow them in their own place. 404 00:30:07,420 --> 00:30:09,360 Ryan Contreras: I get way more from that. 405 00:30:09,740 --> 00:30:12,940 Ryan Contreras: It also is the most surprising and sometimes the most frustrating 406 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,280 Ryan Contreras: where I think something is just 407 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,560 Ryan Contreras: the greatest thing since sliced bread 408 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,720 Ryan Contreras: and it either doesn't work, 409 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:24,140 Ryan Contreras: has some great fault in production, or whatever. 410 00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:33,919 Ryan Contreras: What has been disappointing? I don't know if it's disappointing or surprising, but I guess I continually... 411 00:30:34,059 --> 00:30:41,179 Ryan Contreras: Every time I see a graduate seminar on QTLs and marker-assisted breeding, I always ask, 412 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:46,559 Ryan Contreras: How has that directly translated into a new cultivar coming out? 413 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,940 Ryan Contreras: And I think, yeah, there are really great examples. 414 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,919 Ryan Contreras: So I mentioned peanut breeding, there was nematode resistance, 415 00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,280 Ryan Contreras: they had a rapid marker. Right next door is the hazelnut breeding program 416 00:31:00,580 --> 00:31:04,660 Ryan Contreras: that has been insanely successful on breeding for eastern filbert blight resistance 417 00:31:04,980 --> 00:31:06,220 Ryan Contreras: using marker-assisted breeding. 418 00:31:07,150 --> 00:31:09,039 Ryan Contreras: So there are really great examples out there. 419 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:10,960 Ryan Contreras: But I... 420 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,860 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, we don't use a ton of that. 421 00:31:14,420 --> 00:31:19,560 Ryan Contreras: And so that's, we are doing work in that realm, especially on lilacs because it takes 422 00:31:19,620 --> 00:31:20,880 Ryan Contreras: a long time to phenotype them. 423 00:31:21,580 --> 00:31:28,640 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, I guess that's, and this is advice I got from mentors long ago, is ask why are 424 00:31:28,660 --> 00:31:29,380 Ryan Contreras: we doing this? 425 00:31:29,700 --> 00:31:37,000 Ryan Contreras: Now, an okay answer is if you're a new professor and to get publications, advance the science, 426 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,360 Ryan Contreras: learn something more that's foundational, that's a valid reason. 427 00:31:40,820 --> 00:31:46,059 Ryan Contreras: So I'm not saying that this work isn't important, but I will say if your goal is 428 00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:52,520 Ryan Contreras: you know, cultivar development, ask yourself, like, is this getting me closer to a cultivar? 429 00:31:53,420 --> 00:32:01,920 Ryan Contreras: And I've yet to see anything that is more, that gets us there quicker than creating variation, 430 00:32:02,100 --> 00:32:07,440 Ryan Contreras: whether it's mutation, polyploidization, crossing, open pollination, whatever, 431 00:32:08,340 --> 00:32:10,360 Ryan Contreras: growing them out and then looking at them. 432 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:16,440 Ryan Contreras: Dr. Dirr, it could be argued whether he was a plant breeder or not, but I would say absolutely 433 00:32:16,580 --> 00:32:23,080 Ryan Contreras: he's a plant breeder because even though he used a lot of open pollination, he looked 434 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,799 Ryan Contreras: at the variation, selected something that's superior, and moved it ahead. 435 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,400 Ryan Contreras: And that is plant breeding. 436 00:32:28,580 --> 00:32:32,620 Ping Yu: And I think that might be one of the techniques that you use regularly, 437 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,940 Ping Yu: or most of the breeders use regularly, 438 00:32:35,300 --> 00:32:39,340 Ping Yu: but some students may not realize how important it is. 439 00:32:39,340 --> 00:32:41,260 Ping Yu: Based on your description, they were like, 440 00:32:41,270 --> 00:32:43,420 Ping Yu: "Oh, that's boring and everybody can do it." 441 00:32:43,420 --> 00:32:46,560 Ping Yu: It doesn't require a whole lot of skill set, 442 00:32:47,670 --> 00:32:48,860 Ping Yu: maybe from their perception, 443 00:32:49,220 --> 00:32:54,420 Ping Yu: but it is actually the essential technique for breeding. 444 00:32:55,200 --> 00:33:00,799 Ryan Contreras: I would say, I think of it like at a lot of nurseries, the lowest paid person is the most 445 00:33:00,980 --> 00:33:02,399 Ryan Contreras: important person, it's the watering. 446 00:33:02,740 --> 00:33:03,000 Ping Yu: Yes. 447 00:33:03,260 --> 00:33:03,399 Ryan Contreras: Right? 448 00:33:03,559 --> 00:33:03,899 Ryan Contreras: It's insane. 449 00:33:04,779 --> 00:33:11,860 Ryan Contreras: And it takes a lot of nuance and a lot of skill and nothing is more important than making 450 00:33:11,940 --> 00:33:13,580 Ryan Contreras: sure that everything has the right amount of water. 451 00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:16,419 Ryan Contreras: and it's a difficult skill to develop. 452 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:23,980 Ryan Contreras: I think of it like walking rows or looking at plants and just having the eye for what's better. 453 00:33:24,620 --> 00:33:29,440 Ryan Contreras: And, you know, it could be argued that no one has ever had a better eye than Dr. Dirr. 454 00:33:30,500 --> 00:33:37,000 Ryan Contreras: I've got a plant that is currently being evaluated or considered by a major plant brand, 455 00:33:37,260 --> 00:33:40,140 Ryan Contreras: and it was just a seedling that's here on campus. 456 00:33:40,900 --> 00:33:48,160 Ryan Contreras: I go to lunch in a building that's nearby, and I observed it and said, "Man, that is 457 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,140 Ryan Contreras: different and that is better than what I have seen in the industry." 458 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:57,640 Ryan Contreras: You can look down on these as being not fancy technology, but it's about what your goal 459 00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:57,980 Ryan Contreras: is. 460 00:33:58,300 --> 00:34:00,680 Ryan Contreras: If your goal is to introduce something that's better, 461 00:34:01,340 --> 00:34:07,000 Ryan Contreras: I don't think you... You don't have to be running markers or doing CRISPR or anything fancy. 462 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:07,420 Ping Yu: Yes. 463 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:11,800 Ping Yu: Since we're talking about this, 464 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,679 Ping Yu: can you just give us an example where you say 465 00:34:15,220 --> 00:34:19,560 Ping Yu: the classic techniques and just go out there in the field and look at the plants, 466 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,800 Ping Yu: kind of outperformed more advanced or sexy high-tech approach? 467 00:34:25,399 --> 00:34:31,599 Ping Yu: I mean, we're not here to say that all those high-tech approaches are not as important 468 00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:37,480 Ping Yu: as the traditional ones, but sometimes, you know, you kind of have to combine those two 469 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:41,079 Ping Yu: to reach your goal, as you said, depending on what your goal is. 470 00:34:41,700 --> 00:34:50,619 Ryan Contreras: That is an interesting question. I guess it would be lilacs because that's the only one where I can compare both of them. 471 00:34:51,780 --> 00:35:03,900 Ryan Contreras: We're working toward, so we've been sequencing lilacs and we've done genotyping by sequencing and we have some markers that are associated with reblooming. 472 00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:06,660 Ryan Contreras: And we've been working on that since... 473 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:15,420 Ryan Contreras: 2013 and still don't have what I would consider to be really useful and 474 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:23,200 Ryan Contreras: identified, validated, effective markers. So that'd be my best example. And I 475 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,480 Ryan Contreras: think not from my own program but 476 00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:31,760 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, I see in my colleagues there's these students are doing really fantastic work. 477 00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:38,820 Ryan Contreras: They've identified these QTLs that explain lots of the variation, but at the end of the 478 00:35:38,900 --> 00:35:42,060 Ryan Contreras: day that's not how the cultivars got developed. 479 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:49,859 Ping Yu: What about using some of those high-end, high-tech approach to kind of confirm? 480 00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:54,780 Ping Yu: your field observation. Do you have an example of that? 481 00:35:54,790 --> 00:36:01,140 Ping Yu: Or sometimes the observation and the technology results might be contradictory. 482 00:36:02,060 --> 00:36:07,780 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, I mean, we do have SNP markers that are related to reblooming. 483 00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:10,960 Ryan Contreras: And so we're going to turn those into markers. 484 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,140 Ryan Contreras: And so we absolutely, that's at the end of the day, 485 00:36:14,180 --> 00:36:18,980 Ryan Contreras: we will ultimately validate our field observations for reblooming. 486 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,100 Ryan Contreras: And we want to tie all that together. 487 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,840 Ryan Contreras: And that's gone down this trail a little bit. 488 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:31,099 Ryan Contreras: That's part, to me, part of the larger knowledge-seeking that's going to benefit lots of crops. 489 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:33,920 Ryan Contreras: In horticulture, there's a lot of... 490 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:35,839 Ryan Contreras: Remontancy and reblooming is huge. 491 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:42,300 Ryan Contreras: You could argue that it started with Buddy Lee on Encore azaleas, but Encore azalea, Endless 492 00:36:42,500 --> 00:36:49,440 Ryan Contreras: Summer hydrangeas, Knock Out roses, those things revolutionize those genera for what people 493 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:50,000 Ryan Contreras: expect. 494 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:56,440 Ryan Contreras: Now, you can hardly sell it unless it blooms either continuously or at least more than 495 00:36:56,609 --> 00:36:57,540 Ryan Contreras: once or on new wood. 496 00:36:57,550 --> 00:37:01,440 Ryan Contreras: You can't really sell hydrangea, rose, or azalea. 497 00:37:02,060 --> 00:37:03,880 Ryan Contreras: So those have really changed it. 498 00:37:04,339 --> 00:37:09,420 Ryan Contreras: But we are trying to do gene discovery and identify markers that are associated with 499 00:37:09,460 --> 00:37:09,859 Ryan Contreras: those. 500 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,480 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, so at the end of the day, we want to validate. 501 00:37:14,300 --> 00:37:18,200 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, these traits especially, the environment plays a huge role. 502 00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:25,760 Ryan Contreras: And you can manipulate, a good example is 'Palibin' lilac is non-reblooming. 503 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,380 Ryan Contreras: It doesn't, I don't think it has the genes for reblooming. 504 00:37:29,700 --> 00:37:36,320 Ryan Contreras: But if you shear it at the right time of year in early spring, it will flower in July. 505 00:37:36,839 --> 00:37:39,359 Ryan Contreras: And I've seen growers do that. 506 00:37:39,579 --> 00:37:44,820 Ryan Contreras: Van Essen Nursery, I'll never forget, it was late July and I showed up at their nursery 507 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,579 Ryan Contreras: and 'Palibin' was in full bloom. 508 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,579 Ryan Contreras: And that was because of how they had manipulated the environment. 509 00:37:49,740 --> 00:37:52,380 Ryan Contreras: So it's not, that's a different thing than remontancy. 510 00:37:52,900 --> 00:38:02,460 Ryan Contreras: And so we want to make sure that we're not inadvertently doing something weird in our environment that is causing our plants to re-bloom. 511 00:38:02,539 --> 00:38:04,579 Ryan Contreras: We're trying to make sure that there is a gene there. 512 00:38:05,039 --> 00:38:14,880 Ryan Contreras: And then, oh by the way, you know, if we can figure out what the mechanism is for lilac, what it is for hydrangea, what it is for rose, and what it is for azalea, 513 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,900 Ryan Contreras: then maybe down the road when we have... 514 00:38:18,100 --> 00:38:25,480 Ryan Contreras: better technology or we figured out new ways and there's already been a lot of new work that's done in 515 00:38:26,300 --> 00:38:26,900 Ryan Contreras: introducing 516 00:38:27,940 --> 00:38:32,400 Ryan Contreras: CRISPR technology through non-tissue-culture-based methods. 517 00:38:33,300 --> 00:38:37,720 Ryan Contreras: So that's going to be another huge leap forward if we don't have to go to 518 00:38:38,100 --> 00:38:41,240 Ryan Contreras: undifferentiated callus tissue and then regenerate plants. 519 00:38:41,690 --> 00:38:45,560 Ryan Contreras: If we can introduce it through other means, that would be a huge benefit. 520 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:54,900 Ping Yu: But we talk about the breeding goals and there's a lot of breeding goals depending on what plants 521 00:38:54,900 --> 00:39:00,120 Ping Yu: you are working on. For instance, you talk about the lilac reblooming and some plants are disease 522 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:06,620 Ping Yu: resistant and making it more compact basically making the whole plant better. 523 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:14,300 Ping Yu: But can you share a story where your kind of breeding goal changed halfway through because 524 00:39:14,940 --> 00:39:16,260 Ping Yu: the reality hit? 525 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:22,520 Ping Yu: Because ideally you want everything to work and then you have the perfect plant, but there 526 00:39:22,580 --> 00:39:24,480 Ping Yu: are things that we cannot change. 527 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:31,860 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, so I had, one of my early ideas when I came here, I had worked on Japanese cedar 528 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:33,460 Ryan Contreras: using polyploidization. 529 00:39:34,220 --> 00:39:36,140 Ryan Contreras: Oregon leads the nation in arborvitae production. 530 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:41,740 Ryan Contreras: And I drive down the road and there's these arborvitae with mostly 'Smaragd' or 'Emerald 531 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:42,140 Ryan Contreras: Green'. 532 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:48,400 Ryan Contreras: And during the winter, it turns that rhodoxanthin brown, brown or red or purpley. 533 00:39:49,420 --> 00:39:55,240 Ryan Contreras: And so I had this idea that I could develop polyploids that would be non-winter-browning. 534 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,880 Ryan Contreras: And I went and spoke with the folks at A&R Spada Farms. 535 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:05,920 Ryan Contreras: I had already been doing this work and would go in very excited about this idea and he 536 00:40:05,940 --> 00:40:08,280 Ryan Contreras: just said, "I don't care about that." 537 00:40:09,420 --> 00:40:13,400 Ryan Contreras: And so I said, "Do you get calls about these things turning brown?" 538 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,400 Ryan Contreras: He says, "Oh yeah, every year we get some calls." 539 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,660 Ryan Contreras: I tell them to wait two months and then they're going to turn green. 540 00:40:19,260 --> 00:40:20,740 Ryan Contreras: And they do and then they don't call back. 541 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:22,220 Ryan Contreras: That was the answer. 542 00:40:22,710 --> 00:40:26,640 Ryan Contreras: And he said, "But if you could give me spruce spider mite resistance, 543 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,920 Ryan Contreras: because that's, throughout the industry, that's a major issue. 544 00:40:31,700 --> 00:40:34,540 Ryan Contreras: So that impacts the bottom line. 545 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,620 Ryan Contreras: They don't want to have to put out this active ingredient. 546 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,740 Ryan Contreras: It costs money. There's additional chemicals in the environment. 547 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,440 Ryan Contreras: And so that was one that... 548 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,640 Ryan Contreras: But finding that source of resistance is the trick. 549 00:40:48,380 --> 00:40:53,180 Ryan Contreras: And finding the source of resistance in something that will be compatible 550 00:40:54,060 --> 00:40:57,380 Ryan Contreras: and give us something that has a similar phenotype, right? 551 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,339 Ryan Contreras: So we want it to look like 'DeGroot's Spire' or 'Smaragd', or 552 00:41:01,710 --> 00:41:05,579 Ryan Contreras: you know, these other cultivars that are popular that people want. 553 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:11,160 Ryan Contreras: Oh, and by the way, we also want it to be deer resistant because arborvitae are highly 554 00:41:11,700 --> 00:41:12,420 Ryan Contreras: attractive to deer. 555 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:19,280 Ryan Contreras: That's when you get to, "All right, I can't do spruce spider mite, the phenotype. 556 00:41:19,630 --> 00:41:21,220 Ryan Contreras: Oh, it's got to be fast." 557 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,880 Ryan Contreras: So it's got to be compact, but it's got to be fast, but it also has to be deer resistant. 558 00:41:26,140 --> 00:41:32,960 Ryan Contreras: So that's one where I'm a little bit stymied on how do we proceed. And we have some ideas on 559 00:41:33,220 --> 00:41:37,839 Ryan Contreras: what where we're going to go from there. But but yeah, and I don't feel worried about sharing those 560 00:41:38,060 --> 00:41:42,160 Ryan Contreras: ideas with with your audience because I certainly am not the first one to. 561 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:47,500 Ryan Contreras: To have all of these thoughts, it's something that people have been thinking about and looking for a long time. 562 00:41:47,599 --> 00:41:48,279 Ping Yu: Yeah. 563 00:41:48,279 --> 00:41:51,880 Ryan Contreras: There's no shortage of nearly unattainable goals. 564 00:41:52,119 --> 00:42:00,299 Ryan Contreras: We want a plant to get three feet in one year and then not grow anymore, require no fertilizer and flower 52 weeks a year. 565 00:42:00,460 --> 00:42:05,500 Ping Yu: See, we just sometimes like, "Oh, we are too greedy for a plant." 566 00:42:05,500 --> 00:42:07,220 Ping Yu: We want them to have it all. 567 00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:15,880 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, some have said that we as Americans, we're not okay enough with death and like during, like the change of the seasons 568 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:21,680 Ryan Contreras: Right? So at times, like, your garden might look like there's a lot of rot, and it's just like 569 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:27,099 Ryan Contreras: degrading, and that's good for next year, but I don't want my garden to look like that either, to be honest. 570 00:42:27,260 --> 00:42:31,400 Ping Yu: Yeah, you always are looking for something to be to look at 571 00:42:31,700 --> 00:42:33,820 Ping Yu: Throughout the year, that's just the human nature. 572 00:42:37,540 --> 00:42:41,680 Ping Yu: But again, we're in ornamental, we're dealing with thousands of different plants and 573 00:42:42,579 --> 00:42:45,700 Ping Yu: also, we are limited in 574 00:42:46,980 --> 00:42:48,839 Ping Yu: time, labor, 575 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:59,660 Ping Yu: money. So can you tell us a little bit about how those factors actually decide 576 00:43:00,060 --> 00:43:07,720 Ping Yu: of which, decide your breeding program and decide what you do on certain crops? 577 00:43:08,300 --> 00:43:10,820 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, I mean it really is, it's all money. 578 00:43:11,900 --> 00:43:17,000 Ryan Contreras: Trees are really expensive to grow, so that's a big consideration. 579 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:23,420 Ryan Contreras: I'm actually, I'm hoping to dig trees shortly, bare root them, and then re-space them so 580 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:28,320 Ryan Contreras: that they take up less space after I've chainsawed down 85% of them, the population. 581 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:33,220 Ryan Contreras: But really, it's a matter of what's the potential and what's the need. 582 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:42,040 Ryan Contreras: I've spent a lot of time making crosses and cherry laurels because it is a huge crop. 583 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,120 Ryan Contreras: We spend a lot of time on maples because it's a really important crop. 584 00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:52,120 Ryan Contreras: I've probably spent too much time on hibiscus because it's not that big compared to cherry 585 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:53,620 Ryan Contreras: laurels or maples or boxwood. 586 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:59,080 Ryan Contreras: That's one where it's been kind of interesting, but they're very fast. 587 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,520 Ryan Contreras: And so I think that's kind of where I balance it. 588 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:14,099 Ryan Contreras: I can do many generations of hibiscus in the time when I have tetraploid Norway maples that have still never flowered that are developed in 2010 or 2011. 589 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:17,579 Ryan Contreras: It's all relative. 590 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:25,200 Ryan Contreras: To come back and answer your question, really, it's "Is anybody going to want it?" and "Is there a demand for it?" 591 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:30,520 Ryan Contreras: And if there's not a demand for it now, oftentimes what we'll do is just... 592 00:44:30,500 --> 00:44:36,240 Ryan Contreras: shrink it. We don't, I don't, anything that's generally improved I'm pretty 593 00:44:36,460 --> 00:44:40,860 Ryan Contreras: hesitant to throw it away completely. Yeah. But we may shrink that program down 594 00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:45,240 Ryan Contreras: to just about nothing. We don't throw it away, we might put it on mothballs so to 595 00:44:45,340 --> 00:44:50,880 Ryan Contreras: speak. Ping Yu: Yeah. You never know when that trend might become popular again, like we 596 00:44:51,460 --> 00:44:51,960 Ping Yu: mentioned before. 597 00:44:52,700 --> 00:45:01,260 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, and really it just takes one person at a large grower to find a good niche for it. 598 00:45:01,770 --> 00:45:06,720 Ryan Contreras: And so folks would say that Vaccinium ovatum is not a big crop, 599 00:45:07,900 --> 00:45:11,920 Ryan Contreras: but it is specced a lot in landscapes here in the Pacific Northwest. 600 00:45:12,099 --> 00:45:14,260 Ryan Contreras: And so we've got a plant that's with Briggs. 601 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,960 Ryan Contreras: It's probably underperformed from what they wanted and what we wanted. 602 00:45:19,540 --> 00:45:20,400 Ryan Contreras: There's always tomorrow. 603 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:21,160 Ping Yu: Yeah, yeah. 604 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:29,540 Ping Yu: But over those years, have you ever had a plant that you really loved, but it's just 605 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,900 Ping Yu: not, the demand is just not there? 606 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:33,240 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, absolutely. 607 00:45:33,700 --> 00:45:40,640 Ryan Contreras: One of my first plants that I thought was a home run no-brainer, it's a hybrid. 608 00:45:40,940 --> 00:45:43,820 Ryan Contreras: It's a triploid hybrid Cotoneaster. 609 00:45:44,550 --> 00:45:48,920 Ryan Contreras: It's got pink flowers, good fall color, good form. 610 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:56,140 Ryan Contreras: It withstood 4 degrees Fahrenheit unprotected in a container, isolated, not even jam can tight. 611 00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:57,839 Ryan Contreras: So quite cold hardy. 612 00:45:58,310 --> 00:46:01,220 Ryan Contreras: And it's fire blight resistant, never seen a strike on it anywhere. 613 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:08,500 Ryan Contreras: And it roots pretty well. It's not as fast as some other ones, but it is comparable to apiculatus. 614 00:46:09,700 --> 00:46:13,420 Ryan Contreras: And nobody wants it because it doesn't have berries. 615 00:46:14,260 --> 00:46:20,020 Ryan Contreras: And what we've been told is if it's a Cotoneaster that's deciduous, it has to have berries. 616 00:46:20,910 --> 00:46:21,900 Ryan Contreras: And we're not... 617 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:27,900 Ryan Contreras: That's a great example of I'm not throwing it away, I don't have a big row of it anymore, 618 00:46:28,359 --> 00:46:31,579 Ryan Contreras: but we're keeping a few of them just in case somebody has to come along. 619 00:46:31,799 --> 00:46:32,799 Ryan Contreras: But yeah, that was a great one. 620 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:39,700 Ryan Contreras: It was an early, really excellent lesson and a reminder as to who I'm breeding plants for. 621 00:46:40,100 --> 00:46:42,880 Ryan Contreras: I'm not breeding plants for what I think I want. 622 00:46:43,140 --> 00:46:49,600 Ryan Contreras: I'm breeding plants for what people who are in the industry, what they need and what they want. 623 00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,780 Ping Yu: Yeah, I think that's a very good quote. 624 00:46:53,620 --> 00:46:56,640 Ping Yu: We're just biased for all those plant people. 625 00:46:57,140 --> 00:46:58,200 Ping Yu: We love them all. 626 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:05,360 Ping Yu: We do find value or characteristics for each crop that can be, that need to be improved 627 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,660 Ping Yu: and that need to be appreciated more. 628 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:14,700 Ping Yu: But at the end of the day, it's a consumer, it's a gardener who is going to their local 629 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:20,220 Ping Yu: garden center and grab the plants and then we're like, okay, if they don't have that, 630 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,260 Ping Yu: then they're not going to buy the plant. 631 00:47:22,500 --> 00:47:25,360 Ping Yu: So we are serving them, not us. 632 00:47:26,100 --> 00:47:31,900 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, and I'll say not only am I not perfect, which that's obviously an understatement, 633 00:47:32,060 --> 00:47:36,300 Ryan Contreras: but the nurseries and the brands and the whole process is not perfect. 634 00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:40,860 Ryan Contreras: There are going to be plants that we introduce that are not going to be great. 635 00:47:41,540 --> 00:47:47,000 Ryan Contreras: Dare I say I will introduce some dogs during my career, and there's one that I've introduced 636 00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:56,080 Ryan Contreras: that... 637 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:52,100 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, it's probably, in hindsight, probably shouldn't have been released. 638 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,560 Ryan Contreras: And there's going to be more as we go through my career. 639 00:47:55,800 --> 00:48:00,920 Ryan Contreras: There's going to be more plants that, yeah, probably didn't need to release that. 640 00:48:01,020 --> 00:48:05,300 Ryan Contreras: That wasn't the improvement that it could have been or should have been, or I could 641 00:48:05,300 --> 00:48:06,680 Ryan Contreras: have tested it in more places. 642 00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,140 Ryan Contreras: But at the end of the day, we're just moving ahead. 643 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:10,500 Ryan Contreras: I'm trying to, yeah. 644 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:15,360 Ryan Contreras: I like this quote, it says "find peace and move with urgency" 645 00:48:15,740 --> 00:48:16,040 Ping Yu: Yes. 646 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:21,080 Ryan Contreras: So that's what I'm trying to do, like trying to be calm and think about things critically 647 00:48:21,420 --> 00:48:21,900 Ryan Contreras: but like we... 648 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:22,140 Ping Yu: Yeah 649 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:29,980 Ping Yu: So when we're training the next generation, because I know you also teach 650 00:48:30,220 --> 00:48:37,820 Ping Yu: When training students, which techniques do you insist that the students master first? 651 00:48:39,020 --> 00:48:41,440 Ryan Contreras: Master? I don't know that I've mastered any of this. 652 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:42,859 Ping Yu: Or learn first. 653 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:44,599 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, no, I... 654 00:48:45,500 --> 00:48:47,539 Ryan Contreras: And it depends at what stage. 655 00:48:48,039 --> 00:48:50,720 Ryan Contreras: If it's an undergraduate, master's, or PhD student, 656 00:48:51,119 --> 00:48:52,960 Ryan Contreras: it's a very different thing. 657 00:48:53,079 --> 00:48:56,920 Ryan Contreras: But what I impress upon all students as early as possible is, 658 00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:58,480 Ryan Contreras: you better learn how the plants are grown. 659 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:03,560 Ryan Contreras: It doesn't matter if you're a hazelnut breeder, a blueberry breeder, or a woody plant breeder. 660 00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:10,280 Ryan Contreras: You need to understand how the plants are grown, what are the pain points of the growers 661 00:49:10,980 --> 00:49:11,620 Ryan Contreras: and the consumer. 662 00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:12,740 Ryan Contreras: What are you breeding for? 663 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:14,720 Ryan Contreras: And how is the plant grown? 664 00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,500 Ryan Contreras: If you don't know that, then you're not going to be successful. 665 00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,880 Ryan Contreras: And then we go look at plants. 666 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,320 Ryan Contreras: We look at them in the field a lot. 667 00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:31,980 Ryan Contreras: For my particular program, I don't let anyone leave without doing some ploidy analysis, 668 00:49:32,260 --> 00:49:33,240 Ryan Contreras: some flow cytometry. 669 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,500 Ryan Contreras: They've got to get on the microscope, look at pollen under the microscope. 670 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:41,020 Ryan Contreras: We try to get people to look at chromosomes, but that's a difficult technique. 671 00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,160 Ryan Contreras: You can spend years without really getting that down. 672 00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,220 Ryan Contreras: and everybody does some propagation. 673 00:49:48,780 --> 00:49:50,840 Ryan Contreras: Everybody does a little seed processing. 674 00:49:51,580 --> 00:49:53,420 Ryan Contreras: Really the nuts and bolts things. 675 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:55,280 Ryan Contreras: We stick some cuttings. 676 00:49:55,830 --> 00:49:57,400 Ryan Contreras: I want people to understand 677 00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,380 Ryan Contreras: how our plants work when they leave 678 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:02,500 Ryan Contreras: and know... 679 00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,260 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, like how you make more of it. 680 00:50:05,420 --> 00:50:10,220 Ryan Contreras: We try to make a lot of nursery visits, but as I said, sitting in an office too much. 681 00:50:10,260 --> 00:50:14,680 Ryan Contreras: It's tough to be a good plant breeder when you're sitting in an office, but it's the 682 00:50:14,820 --> 00:50:15,859 Ryan Contreras: nature of our job these days. 683 00:50:16,140 --> 00:50:16,320 Ping Yu: Yeah. 684 00:50:16,839 --> 00:50:21,900 Ping Yu: With that in mind, if people want to get more information of your lab and follow along your 685 00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:22,440 Ping Yu: work, 686 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:27,800 Ping Yu: we're just keeping in touch with you. Where do you recommend to them go and find this information? 687 00:50:28,260 --> 00:50:38,000 Ryan Contreras: If you go to horticulture.oregonstate.edu and you go under people, you can find my lab there. 688 00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:44,060 Ping Yu: I'll put the link, I already have that link in the document, but I'll make sure I put a link 689 00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:46,920 Ping Yu: in on the show notes too so that people can find that. 690 00:50:47,100 --> 00:50:52,900 Ping Yu: very easily. But Ryan, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to talk with me 691 00:50:53,280 --> 00:51:02,060 Ping Yu: and those information are just valuable for anyone, either students or growers or breeders 692 00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:12,740 Ping Yu: to just hopefully get some out of this and the goal is to grow better plants and appreciate more plants. 693 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,480 Ryan Contreras: Yeah, and I really appreciate getting to talk with you, Ping. 694 00:51:16,599 --> 00:51:17,740 Ryan Contreras: And I'll give a quick plug. 695 00:51:17,779 --> 00:51:22,660 Ryan Contreras: I know that you're involved with IPPS, and I would encourage if there are any students 696 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:29,720 Ryan Contreras: that are listening to this, we all think about being involved with ASHS and ISHS, but I really 697 00:51:29,799 --> 00:51:34,720 Ryan Contreras: encourage students to get involved with IPPS because that's where you go, you meet growers, 698 00:51:35,359 --> 00:51:40,220 Ryan Contreras: you go see these operations, and you really, to seek and share is the motto, and it's really 699 00:51:40,359 --> 00:51:40,539 Ryan Contreras: important. 700 00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:41,760 Ryan Contreras: It's where the rubber meets the road. 701 00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:43,380 Ryan Contreras: I would encourage that. 702 00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:43,760 Ping Yu: Yeah. 703 00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:44,799 Ryan Contreras: But yeah, thanks again. 704 00:51:45,079 --> 00:51:46,440 Ryan Contreras: It was really fun talking with you, Ping. 705 00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:46,880 Ryan Contreras: That's cool. 706 00:51:50,579 --> 00:51:53,579 Ping Yu: Conversations like this only happen when you support the show. 707 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:59,819 Ping Yu: For more information and find ways to support us, please go to bandbpod.com. 708 00:52:01,380 --> 00:52:07,920 Ping Yu: bandbpod.com. If you like what you're hearing, spread the word and share this podcast with the people 709 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:14,220 Ping Yu: you love. Make sure you hit that subscription button and give a review for the podcast. 710 00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:19,300 Ping Yu: And as always, go check out the show notes to learn more about this topic 711 00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,420 Ping Yu: and other topics we featured on the show at bandbpod.com. 712 00:52:24,599 --> 00:52:29,020 Ping Yu: Thank you for listening, till the next time, stay healthy and go plants!